keys to success in breeding to race

[Blue feather]

I'd like to hear from experienced successful breeders who breed to race. What are the Keys to your success? What are the mistakes you have learned from or see others struggle with ?

[Denise]

Blue Feather, these are my opinions only, in no way reflect any one else', and are based purely on my personal experience so far.

1. Good female families. If a broodmare prospect raced and won, that's great, but it also helps to have a good foundation behind her, i.e., siblings that raced and won, and first and second dams that also won/produced.
Unraced is more desirable than unplaced, however, especially if the family's there.
2. Good matching of physical size with a stallion. You shouldn't breed a giraffe to a pony and hope for the median! In addition to a size fit, if a mare has conformation flaws, ideally, the stallion should correct them, not repeat them! Same in reverse.
3. Good, "known" nicks/families/matings that have worked together in the past that have produced runners/winners. Good winning athletes, the best you can afford, bred to each other, may yield a runner.
4. Stud fee, relative to what it costs to raise a baby to race once it hits the ground, and God willing, if it's sound and can train. In our case, modestly priced (under $7,500) studs, SO FAR, have yielded two runners/two winners from the same dam. The 3rd hasn't started yet, but looks promising. There's a nice 2yo. in the queue, and a yearling, too.
5. Most important, training. What kind of runner do you have, and what's the best training program to facilitate/groom the athlete? In our case, we knew we might get late bloomers (stallion influence), so none of the first three started at age 2. The oldest two didn't start till June/July of their 3yo. seasons. Waiting till heart/mind/body are all 'mature' makes a huge difference, if you're willing and patient. Keeping them sound and happy is the biggest challenge and most important component, IMHO, in getting them to the races.

Hope this is useful.

[zinn21]

I second everything Denise stated and I'll borrow a wonderful quote from Pete on another thread as of key importance when he states " Build your horse based on conformation and attributes and then make sure that it fits on pedigree."

I also feel a young horse's training/development is huge. A good horseman can make a big difference in the success or failure of your animal. Teaching a thoroughbred how to be a racehorse requires insight and artistry that few possess. Don't give a young horse to a claiming trainer unless he has proven he/she can teach and develop.

A big outfit with little focus on working with youngsters will probably not give the personal attention your horse might need but a small outfit will lack the resources (i.e. other young stock) that is so helpful in the development of a young prospect forcing him/her to network with others in order to get the type of things your horse will need to move forward.

[teb]

I agree with all the comments above, but you can also breed to race, be quite succesful, and enjoy your horses at other levels than graded stakes company. You still need good mares and you don't have to go broke doing it. Don't over estimate your horse and try and choose a trainer that will bring the best out of them.

There are many good little mares out there that produce winner after winner, make their owners money, and more importantly are racehorses. Graded stakes horses are the minority. Having sound competitive horses no matter what the level is not a crime. I'd rather have a horse that wins races and improves a pedigree rather than spend load of money breeding a horse that isn't one 1/2 of the pedigree. And there are many many many of those around.

Terri

[Sock Monkey]

I'd like to hear from experienced successful breeders who breed to race. What are the Keys to your success? What are the mistakes you have learned from or see others struggle with ?

Without a doubt, the mistake I see more than any other in the name of breed to race is just getting carried away. I know so many people who get their own stallion and invest in several mares to breed to him and wind up with a bunch of foals on the ground that they can't sell and then they realize they can't afford to race either.

The other mistake I see a lot of is kicking the babies out and not doing anything with them (vaccinations, foot care, veterinary care, etc) and then winding up with a bunch of crooked horses that become chronically ill when they get to the track and exposed to all those viruses.

And, finally, go into it expecting to pay day rate to get the horses trained, unless you are doing it yourself - and then, expect to pay for feed, riders, etc. If you get a deal, great. But, so often I see someone asking where to find a trainer who will train a bunch of obscurely bred homebreds (who are generally 4 or 5 by this time) on a deal.

As you can probably tell, I know a lot of breed to race types and I do it a little bit myself. Don't get me wrong - you can make good money doing it. But, I also know several people who are floundering because they made the above-mentioned mistakes.

[smeehan]

We've found that breeding talent AND soundness to talent AND soundness has led to winners who race for a long time. They pay their bills and offer years of enjoyment!

[casallc]

Cull and cull ruthlessly. Get rid of those who can't run or produce a runner. Learn what a runner looks and sounds like.

[Strategic Maneuver]

All good advice. Success is an individual thing based on what you want to accomplish and mistakes are only mistakes when you don't learn from them(God knows I've made my share).

[Jenny]

I have enjoyed reading all the comments on this thread. We have started our own breeding program and are bringing ours along now. We are looking forward to them racing. We have made our share of mistakes. But you learn from them all and move on the wiser. Hopefully we can be successful at it. We will keep you all posted over this season. Good luck to all trying this very expensive and heart wrenching adventure.

[imnumberjuan]

Blue,

I second most of the above (I have harsh bias against unraced, and unplaced mares, if you look at the kentucky derby winners of the past 60 years, 47 dams had at least one win, but by my bias, Somethingroyal wouldn't have gotten a second glance from me, 1 start no placement).

Something I have taken to doing of late is looking at stakes horse entries and seeing if I can possible see anything in how that mating came about (was it a nick, a hunch, a linebreed, that day the breeder wanted a chestnut, who knows..).

cassallac is correct, don't be afraid to cull. I have seen too many people get emotionally tied into thinking their mare is going to produce the next great horse, and after 5 years have little to nothing to show for it. As an aside, my first mare, has, if everything goes well, four foals to produce. If nothing comes of it she will be a nice pet, as she has been with the family since she was three (she is 8 now).

Denise hit the nail on the head with her comment on "nicks" if something yields high results all the better, chosing a 24% racers from foals sire is counterproductive.

[winds]

Since all I ever did was work for breed to race owners, I've seen sucesses and failures. Not every foal out of a mare is going to earn enough for their own upkeep, but if more do than not, you are way ahead of the game.

The first owner I worked for paid for outside consultants to help him with his pedigree research, however the owner had final say. He had somewhere between 20 to 30 mares at any one time.The next owner I worked for only had 3 to 6 mares at any given time. I did the pedigree research for him, and had most of the say, however, again, it wasn't my money so he had final say. We both agreed on sending our Torsion mare to Majesty's Prince and that garnered 2 stake horses.

We had some success with some but not quite the success we were hoping for with others, though they did earn good money. We also sold the foals from one of our mares and she did produce a stake horse and good runners.

I've advised him on several breedings since, that produced some nice runners, but I also understand what he is striving for. He doesn't want early runners, he doesn't believe in 2yr old races. He loves distance horses and turf if possible. He loves longevity in his racehorses. So, if you look at it does he have a successful breeding program, in everyone elses eyes, I guess not. But I don't have to worry about what every one else thinks, just him and he's extremely happy with his breeding program because it has given him the success he wants and in the way he wants.

With him I didn't have to worry about a stallion having had been brilliant, though he did breed to Langhfur and had very good success with those foals. But the mares he bred to Langhfur were distance mares and the foals ended up being milers and could go further. He didn't like paying a huge amount for stud fees, he's a big believer in the NY Bred program and not only has been able to keep costs down in the upkeep of the horses on the farm, he's had some good success on the track, but more importantly HE'S HAD FUN.

winds

[TomFool]

I agree with alot that has been said. It sounds simple but the main thing I think a person should do is set realistic plans & goals & follow through. It really helps if your in a race friendly state program such as NY, La etc. I'm a big believer in breeding younger mares to produce racehorses. Just look at the stakes report every week in the bloodhorse & tab the age & number foal that one was out of the dam & the % may suprise you. I like mares that were winners & ones that showed some speed. In going with young generally madien mares I like to use proven stallions that were racehorses themselves (you would really be suprised what you can at bargain find if you really look) . In pedigrees I like to outcross as much as possiable but still use a general nick idea as well as try to match up racing style & balanced conformation. I personally think matching racing style is very important like for example I would not want to breed a Cryptoclearance mare (typicaly come from the clouds closers) to Put It Back (a proven producer of set all the fractions speed). I also would never select mares that were not normal of what they should be racing & conformation wise as I have an idea but its hard to explain in words what most Out of Places for instance should look like & I would never select one that was off this norm. Same as in racing style as I would not want a come from the clouds Put It Back. The other huge key is personal you have to surround yourself with the best you can. If you willing to invest 15k for a mare & 5k for a stud fee & all the other costs it takes to properly raise a horse you should never cut cost on a trainer & or if you do most all yourself on grooms & or gallop boys. I like the sales but my first love was the racetrack & for me I cant help but first think with any mating will this make a racehorse.

[larrygene]

Tom, you have some very sound reasoning. IMO

Larrygene

[ratherrapid]

good question, then i saw oops, she's asking successful experienced breeders. but thought i'd add what I think was the biggest mistake with my 5 or 6 homebreds, nice horses all--failing to start the training early which leaves you way behind the eight ball againt your competitors. you can start a horse late two year old but that horse most likely will be unprofitable. based on my experience, best to be seriously training by late weanling, and have the breaking gear out for the june yearling or the time is likely to pass the horse by regarless of what brilliant decisions were made earlier. i'd think in general in this gene pool the training decisions far outweigh the breeding. most of them can run if given the opportunities.

[Strategic Maneuver]

What do you mean by breaking a late weanling and training a June yrlg.