30 Starving horses headlined in Ontario
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
At the risk of opening an awful discussion here, and I in no way am for horse slaughter......ughhh it is so humane......at least it is over for them. How long does it take to starve a horse to death? So please before anyone gets mad at me and thinks I am for the inhumane treatment of slaughter I have to weigh those facts. This may not make sense the way I have written it.....
briarhalo wrote:At the risk of opening an awful discussion here, and I in no way am for horse slaughter......ughhh it is so humane......at least it is over for them. How long does it take to starve a horse to death? So please before anyone gets mad at me and thinks I am for the inhumane treatment of slaughter I have to weigh those facts. This may not make sense the way I have written it.....
Claire,
If one HAD to choose which was the lesser of the two evils: allowing a horse to slowly starve to death vs slaughter...obviously slaughter is quicker and provides a lot less chance for rescue. However, horses properly managed and cared for, DON'T slowly starve to death, nor should there be a "need" to resort to sending them to slaughter. Both ugly ends are a choice, except in the rarest of circumstances, i.e., a person who has no friends, family or close neighbors, dies in bed and is not discovered until sadly the horses in the person's care are found dying in a field or barn...or some other similar unintentional tragedy. Those tragic accidents/twists of fate are not common occurences, nor are they intentional. Even then, anyone can make arrangements for people to check on the horses, such as, if the guy doesn't come for his usual pick-up of hay, etc. It just takes people being more caring and community oriented. Just pick up the phone..."hey...you missed your usual pick-up...I was just checking to be sure all was o.k." If there is no answer...take a ride out to the farm and knock on the door. Most people would be pleased someone cared.
I have a neighbor...she has no pets and certainly has no horses. (We don't even really much care for each other, to be honest.) But she is elderly and when I don't see her lights on for a while (a day or two), I give her a call...just in case something is wrong. She always calls me when she will be going out of town. That kind of thing. It just takes people actually caring about something other than themselves for a change. The way the world used to be...once upon a time.
I can relate to the elderly horse issue.
I too have a Ancient horse here. He was my first horse and ive had him since i was 14 and im now 34. Mickey is now 31 and really showing his age.
I am disgraced at how he looks BUt if i had to have a OSPCA member or someone come out on a complaint i have nothing to worry about. I have 4 other horses here fat as can be. Grain stocked full. Sure my hay is getting low but i have another barn Full at my dads to come over when the ground freezes up AGAIN!
Hes blanketed, brought in at night with the broodmare and is full of spunk. He is fed 3 times daily his ration of purina soaked in tons of water till it turns into a mash. I also have a vet who could stand up and say Yes she has called me for this fella, hes missing molars we altered his feed and he is comfortable.
So for the person who walks by my farm and sees him on the day its warm and the blanket is off, i know im doing the best i can to keep my promise to him for alife here with me that he deserves for all the time he spent listeing to my stories growing up. i know his time here is limited but he is still enjoying life and im doing all i can to help him do that.
So for the elderly lady who has issues with the reports. She should too make sure she has done all she can to ensure the welfar of her horses. If she bought rescues in need of assistance im sure she has called avet to come assess their needs. Im sure the person who was bringing the hay to her barn will stand up for her. Im sure the personshe got the horses from will proclaim yes indeed they are doing better.
If not then it makes you wonder what the elderly person needs to help herself. Not to put her down because im not sure what is going on. But working in a nursing home i have heard and seen all sorts of medical dilemmas raising concern for not only the welfare of animals but the welfare of people that own them.
We havent been given the full story on the 30 abandoned tbs in Brampton, we probably wont know for at least a year. No names, no data on their side either.
This will be a very hard year on horse owners. The shortage and price of hay will impact hard on the horse industry. YOu will see tons of horses coming to the sale barns early this spring due to owners lack of financial and lack of hay acquirement. I know im feeding extra hay replacer with my grain to ensure my present supply meets my demands here.
I have access to much more hay but i give the farmer who cuts mine almost all of my 1st and 2nd cut just to get the few hundred bales i need. If i had my own equipment id probably have 15 horses here right now snapping up all the wonderful deals listed on the websites due to all the horse owners this year stating they cant get or cant affort the costs of paying for this years hay.
Hope ive made sense here on this LONG post. Dont mean to offend anyone this is solely my thoughts right out of my head.
Kirsten
I too have a Ancient horse here. He was my first horse and ive had him since i was 14 and im now 34. Mickey is now 31 and really showing his age.
I am disgraced at how he looks BUt if i had to have a OSPCA member or someone come out on a complaint i have nothing to worry about. I have 4 other horses here fat as can be. Grain stocked full. Sure my hay is getting low but i have another barn Full at my dads to come over when the ground freezes up AGAIN!
Hes blanketed, brought in at night with the broodmare and is full of spunk. He is fed 3 times daily his ration of purina soaked in tons of water till it turns into a mash. I also have a vet who could stand up and say Yes she has called me for this fella, hes missing molars we altered his feed and he is comfortable.
So for the person who walks by my farm and sees him on the day its warm and the blanket is off, i know im doing the best i can to keep my promise to him for alife here with me that he deserves for all the time he spent listeing to my stories growing up. i know his time here is limited but he is still enjoying life and im doing all i can to help him do that.
So for the elderly lady who has issues with the reports. She should too make sure she has done all she can to ensure the welfar of her horses. If she bought rescues in need of assistance im sure she has called avet to come assess their needs. Im sure the person who was bringing the hay to her barn will stand up for her. Im sure the personshe got the horses from will proclaim yes indeed they are doing better.
If not then it makes you wonder what the elderly person needs to help herself. Not to put her down because im not sure what is going on. But working in a nursing home i have heard and seen all sorts of medical dilemmas raising concern for not only the welfare of animals but the welfare of people that own them.
We havent been given the full story on the 30 abandoned tbs in Brampton, we probably wont know for at least a year. No names, no data on their side either.
This will be a very hard year on horse owners. The shortage and price of hay will impact hard on the horse industry. YOu will see tons of horses coming to the sale barns early this spring due to owners lack of financial and lack of hay acquirement. I know im feeding extra hay replacer with my grain to ensure my present supply meets my demands here.
I have access to much more hay but i give the farmer who cuts mine almost all of my 1st and 2nd cut just to get the few hundred bales i need. If i had my own equipment id probably have 15 horses here right now snapping up all the wonderful deals listed on the websites due to all the horse owners this year stating they cant get or cant affort the costs of paying for this years hay.
Hope ive made sense here on this LONG post. Dont mean to offend anyone this is solely my thoughts right out of my head.
Kirsten
Kirsten I know what you mean about having more horses.....lol....if I only had a bigger barn.....oh and a bit more money.....
BJ you are absolutely right! People should have a plan in place if they are not around. I know my neighbours would look out for mine. It still comes down to the simplicity of.......if you can't take responsibility for the animals you have you should never own one. That's it, that's all....simple. However, it never seems to be that black and white...."sigh".
BJ you are absolutely right! People should have a plan in place if they are not around. I know my neighbours would look out for mine. It still comes down to the simplicity of.......if you can't take responsibility for the animals you have you should never own one. That's it, that's all....simple. However, it never seems to be that black and white...."sigh".
Kirsten says >>>Hes blanketed, brought in at night with the broodmare and is full of spunk. He is fed 3 times daily his ration of purina soaked in tons of water till it turns into a mash. I also have a vet who could stand up and say Yes she has called me for this fella, hes missing molars we altered his feed and he is comfortable.
So for the person who walks by my farm and sees him on the day its warm and the blanket is off, i know im doing the best i can to keep my promise to him for alife here with me that he deserves for all the time he spent listeing to my stories growing up. i know his time here is limited but he is still enjoying life and im doing all i can to help him do that. <<<
If only every person, who ever has the priviledge to own or care for a horse, would feel and behave that way.............the world would be a beautiful place indeed!
So for the person who walks by my farm and sees him on the day its warm and the blanket is off, i know im doing the best i can to keep my promise to him for alife here with me that he deserves for all the time he spent listeing to my stories growing up. i know his time here is limited but he is still enjoying life and im doing all i can to help him do that. <<<
If only every person, who ever has the priviledge to own or care for a horse, would feel and behave that way.............the world would be a beautiful place indeed!
BJ wrote:Skeenan...
Truth has a way of winning out. If the lady had hay on the way...that can be proven. If the horses were not starved and were just "normally aging", etc., that too can be proven by a competent Vet. Unneccesarily inconvenient and unpleasant for the woman...possibly. But death and slow starvation is quite unpleasant and inconvenient for horses too. I'd err on the side of caution in favor of the horses in any case. The woman (people) can take care of herself/themselves. The horses can't take care of themselves.
I wish I could say more, but I know there are others from NH on the forum, and I don't want to be responsible for starting rumors!
If I hear what happens "officially", I'll relay the news!
I can say that my source saw the horses firsthand and that they are a horse person themselves. There was hay at her place when they seized the horses. Lots of underlying issues that have nothing to do with the horses... it's too bad all around... and yes, I do side with the horses' best outcome!
My comment about the neighbor thing... in talking with my source, they have a horse they acquired some time ago that was thin. The horse isn't now, but a neighbor could've called the authorities at the time and complained without knowing the background or bothering to ask. Same goes for another person down the street from me-- they took in two thin TBs this fall. If someone had driven by and didn't know the owner, they might also assume that the owner is the one responsible for their condition.
Sure, the truth would come out... but would you want your name in the paper as a "horse abuser"? Or your horses seized before a thorough investigation? That's what I meant about "scary"... I don't know firsthand, so I can't defend this lady one way or another... but if she is proven innocent, then the way she was treated was unfair, I think...
That was my only point, in response to this particular, specific situation. Believe me, I'm the first person to jump on the soap box for animal rights!!!!
Actually, I have had two visits by animal control, both times because I had gotten new horses shipped in that I accepted from trainers. Both times the horses were supposed to be in "racing condition..." In one case, the mares were emaciated, the other time they were just wormy and thin. It's purely evil-mindedness where someone can clearly see 20 or so other horses fat as ticks. There are a lot of busybody thugs out there who live to ruin somebody's day. Just a giant pain in the ass because A) I will save the horse's life and it will look great in a few months and B) I have to pay for a *@&#* Vet Call to fill in and return the report to Animal Control. So now I have a locked front gate and No Trespassing is posted so people can mind their own business and I can save a few more horses. If it ever happens again, though, I am QUITTING THE SAVING OF HORSES. Would have been Really nice if the jerk had bothered to knock on the door and ask about the mare's histories, but that is expecting Way too Much Intelligence and Courtesy.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
madelyn wrote:Actually, I have had two visits by animal control, both times because I had gotten new horses shipped in that I accepted from trainers. Both times the horses were supposed to be in "racing condition..." In one case, the mares were emaciated, the other time they were just wormy and thin. It's purely evil-mindedness where someone can clearly see 20 or so other horses fat as ticks. There are a lot of busybody thugs out there who live to ruin somebody's day. Just a giant pain in the ass because A) I will save the horse's life and it will look great in a few months and B) I have to pay for a *@&#* Vet Call to fill in and return the report to Animal Control. So now I have a locked front gate and No Trespassing is posted so people can mind their own business and I can save a few more horses. If it ever happens again, though, I am QUITTING THE SAVING OF HORSES. Would have been Really nice if the jerk had bothered to knock on the door and ask about the mare's histories, but that is expecting Way too Much Intelligence and Courtesy.
Exactly my point!
And that stinks, madelyn...
I live in a very small village. Our scenic and rather huge lake here attracts lots of visitors in the summer months. We have people walking the 3 km block from the trailer park past my and my neighbours farm.
Part of the reason i posted the part about the neighbours walking by comes down to what happened to my neighbour this past fall.
She was reported to the OSPCA that summer. A apparently good person saw her horse in the field and reported her due to her condition. The humane socitey or whoever came out to follow up ona complaint or suspected horse abuse.
This was the last horse she owned. Her other long time companion a Qh/clyde passed away the previous year. She owns Plenty of pasture and if you looked into the field you would see the remaining mare had tons of lush green grass. ( I was always envious of her fields).
They came out talked with the owner and asked the owner some questions. One was the horses age. Yes the mare was thin, very badly swayed backed and had a big knee from arthritis. Did see a huge water trough available, hay in barn ( not needed at this time of year) and plenty of grass. ASked the owner more about the mare. Found out she was 34 years old.
THeir comment "thats the best 34 yr old horse ive ever seen"
So the passers by judged the owners without any horse knowledge and filled a report. Might save the ospca some time to investigate the persons knowlegde making the claim before actually going to the site or simply calling the owner.
So thats what makes me wary of others passing judgement on my horses. Maybe we should post a sign on our property." AGED horse lives here he aint pretty but he aint starving!"
How many times have you seen someone with their ancient dog. They maybe very thin due to teeth issues, malabsortption and the owner has a hard time putting them down because the arent showing any symptoms of pain. They put up with the dribbles on the carpet and the slowed down old body trying to get out for a quick pee and need help getting up and down the steps? Do we feel differently about the dogs? or is it just not too many people actually enter our homes without asking about these animals when they see them eh!
Part of the reason i posted the part about the neighbours walking by comes down to what happened to my neighbour this past fall.
She was reported to the OSPCA that summer. A apparently good person saw her horse in the field and reported her due to her condition. The humane socitey or whoever came out to follow up ona complaint or suspected horse abuse.
This was the last horse she owned. Her other long time companion a Qh/clyde passed away the previous year. She owns Plenty of pasture and if you looked into the field you would see the remaining mare had tons of lush green grass. ( I was always envious of her fields).
They came out talked with the owner and asked the owner some questions. One was the horses age. Yes the mare was thin, very badly swayed backed and had a big knee from arthritis. Did see a huge water trough available, hay in barn ( not needed at this time of year) and plenty of grass. ASked the owner more about the mare. Found out she was 34 years old.
THeir comment "thats the best 34 yr old horse ive ever seen"
So the passers by judged the owners without any horse knowledge and filled a report. Might save the ospca some time to investigate the persons knowlegde making the claim before actually going to the site or simply calling the owner.
So thats what makes me wary of others passing judgement on my horses. Maybe we should post a sign on our property." AGED horse lives here he aint pretty but he aint starving!"
How many times have you seen someone with their ancient dog. They maybe very thin due to teeth issues, malabsortption and the owner has a hard time putting them down because the arent showing any symptoms of pain. They put up with the dribbles on the carpet and the slowed down old body trying to get out for a quick pee and need help getting up and down the steps? Do we feel differently about the dogs? or is it just not too many people actually enter our homes without asking about these animals when they see them eh!
Kirsten wrote:
Maybe we should post a sign on our property." AGED horse lives here he aint pretty but he aint starving!"
That is priceless.....made me laugh but I agree. At the farm I used to manage we had a 37 year old thoroughbred, poor fellow should have been down long before I did (but I was not owner and she would not agree). Anyway, I did what I could to keep weight on him but as you can imagine it was hard, extremely so. However, if anyone had come in and seen the other horses, they were definitely fat! It's a tough call in some cases I guess. For those of us who know horses the first thing we think is ask about the horse before you call SPCA. But then again, people could be asked and then lied to. I think in some cases if people care enough to have it looked into, that is important. However, as Skeenan wrote, it does get carried away. I could not ever imagine being labelled as a horse or animal abuser because I had just brought in a very skinny horse, bought or rescued. I purchased a horse a little while back who when it came, was rather underweight. Unfortunately at the same time I also was dealing with a new vet. The first thing he said to me when he walked in my barn was.........My God! why is that horse so skinny? Thank God I had a couple other, nice fat round horses so I could prove I don't starve them. But, I must admit, I was totally insulted!
Sorry for rambling....lol
Claire
Maybe we should post a sign on our property." AGED horse lives here he aint pretty but he aint starving!"
That is priceless.....made me laugh but I agree. At the farm I used to manage we had a 37 year old thoroughbred, poor fellow should have been down long before I did (but I was not owner and she would not agree). Anyway, I did what I could to keep weight on him but as you can imagine it was hard, extremely so. However, if anyone had come in and seen the other horses, they were definitely fat! It's a tough call in some cases I guess. For those of us who know horses the first thing we think is ask about the horse before you call SPCA. But then again, people could be asked and then lied to. I think in some cases if people care enough to have it looked into, that is important. However, as Skeenan wrote, it does get carried away. I could not ever imagine being labelled as a horse or animal abuser because I had just brought in a very skinny horse, bought or rescued. I purchased a horse a little while back who when it came, was rather underweight. Unfortunately at the same time I also was dealing with a new vet. The first thing he said to me when he walked in my barn was.........My God! why is that horse so skinny? Thank God I had a couple other, nice fat round horses so I could prove I don't starve them. But, I must admit, I was totally insulted!
Sorry for rambling....lol
Claire
When I first brought my lame malnourished standardbred filly home from the rescue, I used to worry what people would think. We haven't lived here very long. She was 2 yrs, 14.1 and just over 615lbs and had the worst looking coat, all rough and dull with bits missing and she limped...well she's put on over a hundred lbs but she's still a little scrawny girl- see, she's also grown 3 inches! She still limps and always will but she's got the most glorious coat now, shiny and healthy. Still worry about passerbys thinking she's abused. Fact is she was, but has a peaceful home forever now. Fortunately all my others are fat and happy...9 months ago, my vet thought I should put her down. Her comment was "her propects are not good". She saw her again about 3 weeks ago and commented on how good she looks. (self satisfied smirk here) So hopefully nobody will take me to task on this wonderful soul. I've got lots of hay and grain and she has 2 blankets and her own stall with soft stall flooring. Tell me how she's not looked after! but I know the feeling of worrying about having some well intentioned but misinformed person calling the OSPCA.
Anyway about the mare I was asking for advice about yesterday. Saw the wound myself. I do not feel it will be a problem if it is cleaned everyday. The swelling was down on the knee and there was no heat. The cut, while large seems fairly superficial. She's such a sweet girl, 12 yr old TB. Glad this doesn't look like something that will cause permanent injury. She's off riding for awhile-don't think she'll mind. Interesting thing is, the soon to be ex-husband was no where around but the barn was cleaned, and they all had hay and water when we arrived. Even the stalls of his own horses had been cleaned (the paint stallion had not been brushed but his stall was cleaned out). Maybe the guy realized that he now had someone watching what he was up to. Will keep my eye on him and talk to him as necessary...
Anyway about the mare I was asking for advice about yesterday. Saw the wound myself. I do not feel it will be a problem if it is cleaned everyday. The swelling was down on the knee and there was no heat. The cut, while large seems fairly superficial. She's such a sweet girl, 12 yr old TB. Glad this doesn't look like something that will cause permanent injury. She's off riding for awhile-don't think she'll mind. Interesting thing is, the soon to be ex-husband was no where around but the barn was cleaned, and they all had hay and water when we arrived. Even the stalls of his own horses had been cleaned (the paint stallion had not been brushed but his stall was cleaned out). Maybe the guy realized that he now had someone watching what he was up to. Will keep my eye on him and talk to him as necessary...
It's sad and unfortunate that Madelyn, who works hard to save horses, as well as others who may have had to suffer the "evil eye" of the government. It is all a process. Once the agencies KNOW you or your neighbors (as the case may be) do these things in support of the horse, they will leave you alone. They must do their job. We would all be screaming, "where was the SPCA" or, "why didn't somebody do something", IF it was a case like so many have been, where horses ARE abused and neglected.
Sadly, its all part of the fight and the committment we all have do decide is worth it or not. That's up to each individual. But I will always come down on the side of the animal and would err on the side of caution every time. People have recourse and a voice in the courts. Yes, it may be inconvenient and ugly, but the horse is totally dependent on the human for its voice. Plain and simple. If saving them and watching them go from an abused, emaciated animal, to a healthy one that finds a loving home isn't worth the occasional, unfortunate hassle...maybe you aren't getting that much satisfaction from it anymore. But I can tell you Madelyn, you have inspired others and there are many voiceless horses who would beg to differ with you. So, I hope you can just shrug off the hassles and continue to do what you do so well.
Sadly, its all part of the fight and the committment we all have do decide is worth it or not. That's up to each individual. But I will always come down on the side of the animal and would err on the side of caution every time. People have recourse and a voice in the courts. Yes, it may be inconvenient and ugly, but the horse is totally dependent on the human for its voice. Plain and simple. If saving them and watching them go from an abused, emaciated animal, to a healthy one that finds a loving home isn't worth the occasional, unfortunate hassle...maybe you aren't getting that much satisfaction from it anymore. But I can tell you Madelyn, you have inspired others and there are many voiceless horses who would beg to differ with you. So, I hope you can just shrug off the hassles and continue to do what you do so well.
I don't directly care for my horses, so I am very naive about these situations. But it would seem to make sense for those of you who take in abused or abandoned horses to contact your local ASPCA or similar government organization to ask them to visit. Show them some before-and-after pictures. Provide references that they can check with, such as vet, feed supplier, rescue organization, or even the kill-pen management.
If you are pro-active, you may stop these problems before they arise, and also possibly be able to help out other neglected horses nearby as a contact point.
If you are pro-active, you may stop these problems before they arise, and also possibly be able to help out other neglected horses nearby as a contact point.
Rocking H
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starving horses in Caledon
briarhalo wrote:Kirsten where did you see this? Just curious because I had tried to find out more info. Thanks in advance. Claire
"The Game", a TB racing paper out of Oakville, ON carried the story in their Feb/05 issue that arrived last week. Their website is www.thehorsegame.com . I don't know if you can access the story on-line. It was a two page article starting on page 11 and very informative.