Breeding dilemna...

[Mood Swings]

I have a lovely healthy mare that I've had to have covered twice (two different cycles). She was just checked again today and is once again not in foal. Her uterus is in great shape so now I have to decide whether to breed her back to the same stallion or switch her off to someone else (the stallion manager is very understanding). The stallion is not a spring chicken anymore but is still getting some of his mares in foal ... just not mine

Any suggestions? She needs to go the breeding shed tomorrow, thanks!

[LB]

I'd probably switch, especially since the stallion manager is being accomodating. As I'm sure you know, sometimes mares and stallions that are otherwise fine just don't "click" with one another.

You mentioned that the stallion is older. If you suspect this may be your last chance to get a foal by him, and if that's something that is worth the risk of possibly losing this year with the mare, that might be a reason for trying a third time. But other than that, I would most likely try to book her elsewhere.

[Mood Swings]

Thanks for your quick response

[teb]

Can I ask quickly what you're feeding? My perfectly healthy inside and out mare quit getting in foal and after a bunch of diagnostics done (which my vet said were useless) I still have a very healthy mare inside. I listened to all the usual weather crap and then did some research and changed feed.

Probably won't help you now, but I took her off everything with soy in it. Flash forward to 9 months later and bred her on her second cycle which was March 2. She got in foal on the first try and that was AI. She now has normal complete regular cycles. That breeding was last year and I have a healthy colt this year.

Just a thought
Terri

[LB]

That's interesting Terri. I've heard other stories about reactions to soy both in humans and in horses. It's certainly a suppliment (or ingredient) that I would be very wary of.

[griff]

suggestions:

[1] get a culture on her

[2] ask your Vet to give her SETTLE

By the way, I have a 12 YO maiden that has now been covered twice with no foal.. can't really see why a maiden would need a culture or SETTLE and maybe I should also change stallions but I'm going to do the SETTLE and rthe culture and try the same stallion one more time.

Then change stallions

griff

[teb]

That's interesting Terri. I've heard other stories about reactions to soy both in humans and in horses. It's certainly a suppliment (or ingredient) that I would be very wary of.

I went through a host of problems with 3 of my horses (all related). They included fat pads, sore feet, behavorial issues, and the pregnancy issue. When I approached the feed company with my problems they told me horses do not have issues with soy and that it was basically a feed for TB's and not native breeds. Well I have TB's and one was a TB cross. They also told me not to stop using the balancer (1pd per day only) but to keep them off all grass and on a dry lot only. Yes, because my horses wanted to be misreable for the rest of their lives.

Within three weeks of the diet change all of those issues went away and they could graze normally. By normall I mean they could go out on grass during the day and they came up to a pen at night. They can never had a field of lush grass but at least they can graze.

It's been trying in Ireland to get all the ingredients I need for a healthy non soy diet, but so worth it. I've had a couple of people who have tried the diet on mares who weren't getting in foal after all medical excuses were ruled out. Their mares ended up pregnant. I am not a vet or an equine nutrtionist so unless I know someone I don't go telling them what to do.

I'm glad it was something as simple as diet. And lets face it, who heard of an IR horse 20 years ago? Yes, you always heard about fat ponies who would founder on grass but beyond that the problem wasn't as big as it is now with the advent of balancers and high protien foods. But the only reason I mention high protein is because it come almost always from soy.

Here's a really cool company in Germany which I wish I had access to. They make a good range of feeds for just about everything and it's all soy free:http://www.st-hippolyt.com/en2009/HTML/hauptfutter.htm

That's the main page and the mare and foal stuff is under the heading of successful rearing. Really wish these guys were global!

Terri

[griff]

Good point. Sweet 16 and like have ruined more horses than all the underfed horses put together.

griff

[griff]

Just read an article on:

VeterinaryPartner.com

titled: Breeding the Older Maiden Mare

I don't know if this is anything you can use but I am trying to breed a 13 YO maiden that was taken off the track two plus years ago and this is the only thinbg I have found to address my specific problem..

griff

[K~2]

I have had a lot of success using the oxytocin protocol on the equine-reproduction website for getting mares in foal.

Mares that are likely to benefit from the use of an oxytocin protocol such as one outlined above include those mares with known delayed uterine clearance problems, mares with uterine fluid presence pre- and/or post-breeding, older mares that may have uterine lymphatic issues, mares post-breeding with frozen semen, and - in our experience - some other "problem mares" that have defied pregnancy establishment for no apparent reason. It should be noted that we will use oxytocin prophylactically in mares that we consider may present breeding problems even in the absence of identified problems, and have seen good - if inexplicable - success. The treatment is cheap, easy and carries minimal risks.

[Jessi P]

I read this interesting article on soy a couple weeks ago -

http://www.enlightenedhorsemanship.net/ ... rses-feed/

[griff]

Thanks Jessi P

I have sent this to the satallion station owner/manager who is a friend and asked her to take a look at how much soy she is feeding to my mares and to her breeding stallions

griff

[Mood Swings]

Well I ended up switching her ... we'll find out in 16 days if I made the right decision or not

griff - her swabs have all been clean.

K~2 - I give all of my mares oxytocin three days after foaling and if they need it, I give it to them after breeding. She has reacted stallions semen on both previous covers and has needed oxytocin. We'll see if that is the case this time when she is checked for ovulation...

teb - I am not sure if there is soy in our grain. Out of curiousity I will find out. We have alot of broodmares at the farm and they all get the same feed, none of them have had a problem, nor have I in the past (even with this mare) so I don't imagine our feed is an issue. Interesting none the less

Thanks for the replies!

[Jane]

I agree with LB, sometimes they just don't click. Now that we have considerably more selection up here you are best off rolling the dice with someone else. Fingers crossed that it works for you.

[teb]

Near enough every commercial bagged feed will have soy in it. Especially those with high protein unless it's soy free. But the balancers are the worst offenders and it's what tipped my horses over the edge.

Not all horses have issues with soy. Some of my horses still get commercial feed and they are fine with it. But if any of mine start having problems they get switched.

Jessi, that was a good article and one I haven't seen before - thank you.

Terri