Theo, that statement is profound, these guys have been all over the capital bad mouthing you, Joe, Bob and our movement in general. You are a big man to take all that and still have respect for those who attack you. Thanks for the model to follow.
Sam Houston seems to be doing very well inspite of the small fields, WHY?
What can LS learn from SH? I really feel that is the simple fact that SH is running against 20 or so not so big tracks, while LS is going to go up against all the big boys and about 50 other tracks. If you look at the afternoon racing where SH has some competion, you will see much less money being bet. Yet when our leaders get through with their analysis, the success will be all due to less dates, but I contend that SH could have had more full fields if they would have opened in Nov. 2010. I think anyone can determine that, but I will debate that issue if you want.
Be ready for the fight, we will have less dates proposed.
Texas Thoroughbred Forum
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
I absolutely agree with you Roger. Theo's statement is very profound indeed. I agree that the mushrooms' stance has always been "it's business not personal" and that is one reason I find the postings on PQ by Ajo, The Queen and a couple of others offensive in nature. I could be wrong but I found their attacks personal.
I, personally, would like to see the TTA distance itself from the THP and get back to promoting the Texas Thoroughbred breeders and owners. This situation with the VLT's etc is a comedy of errors which has gone on for what nearly 12 yeas now. Somebody needs to be accountable for the failure to achieve the passage of legislation (of any type) to improve the situation for Texas Thoroughbred owners and breeders. Something Joe said at some stage probably has a lot of truth to it........"follow the money"
So I have a few more questions and I will be emailing the ED and Dr. Rich tomorrow to ask some of them.
- Who is the lobbyist representative for the TTA???? Does he/she represent any other organizations related to breeding and racing????
- What level of remuneration has the lobbyist been getting from the TTA and THP and TTHPBA???
-What is the initiative being presented at the regional meetings???? Something new and different???
Changing the subject for a minute - I still think the majority of the TTA Board are intelligent people and give a lot of their time and I have a lot of respect for them. I especially admire the Board members who post their opinions on the various forums. Personally, I would like to see all our efforts bought under the umbrella of the TTA. I think we have too many organizations/too many chiefs and too many ways to move the accountability and blame. However it seems to me that the Board at large has little power and it all lies with the Executive Committee. Please can those meeting minutes be posted on the website as well? Following the THP protocol, maybe Theo could be appointed to the Board when a position becomes available!!!!!
I will close with something I said to a new TTA Board member who I think the world of "Lobbyists rank right up there alongside used car salesmen and insurance salesmen in believing anything that comes out of their mouths".
I, personally, would like to see the TTA distance itself from the THP and get back to promoting the Texas Thoroughbred breeders and owners. This situation with the VLT's etc is a comedy of errors which has gone on for what nearly 12 yeas now. Somebody needs to be accountable for the failure to achieve the passage of legislation (of any type) to improve the situation for Texas Thoroughbred owners and breeders. Something Joe said at some stage probably has a lot of truth to it........"follow the money"
So I have a few more questions and I will be emailing the ED and Dr. Rich tomorrow to ask some of them.
- Who is the lobbyist representative for the TTA???? Does he/she represent any other organizations related to breeding and racing????
- What level of remuneration has the lobbyist been getting from the TTA and THP and TTHPBA???
-What is the initiative being presented at the regional meetings???? Something new and different???
Changing the subject for a minute - I still think the majority of the TTA Board are intelligent people and give a lot of their time and I have a lot of respect for them. I especially admire the Board members who post their opinions on the various forums. Personally, I would like to see all our efforts bought under the umbrella of the TTA. I think we have too many organizations/too many chiefs and too many ways to move the accountability and blame. However it seems to me that the Board at large has little power and it all lies with the Executive Committee. Please can those meeting minutes be posted on the website as well? Following the THP protocol, maybe Theo could be appointed to the Board when a position becomes available!!!!!
I will close with something I said to a new TTA Board member who I think the world of "Lobbyists rank right up there alongside used car salesmen and insurance salesmen in believing anything that comes out of their mouths".
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keyranch
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From what I understand the TTA and THP do not have their own lobbyists, they are dependent on the racetrack paid lobbyists. In other words, we do not and have not had anyone representing the horsemen in Austin for years. The relationship between TTA, THP, and the Texas Horse organization has very blurred lines and common board members.
The question is who is paying for the staff of the Texas Horse and their website? Is the TTA and THP contributing to their support or is it totally supported by the racetracks? If it is supported by the racetracks, then how can our board members be on that board at the same time, would that not be a conflict of interest? Why did the director of TEXAS HORSE attend meetings concerning the race dates crisis that was presented by the racetracks?
There are a lot of questions that have not been answered and should be answered by the associations to the members! Many of you have been involved in racing in other states as have I, I can not find any more convoluted representation anywhere.
The question is who is paying for the staff of the Texas Horse and their website? Is the TTA and THP contributing to their support or is it totally supported by the racetracks? If it is supported by the racetracks, then how can our board members be on that board at the same time, would that not be a conflict of interest? Why did the director of TEXAS HORSE attend meetings concerning the race dates crisis that was presented by the racetracks?
There are a lot of questions that have not been answered and should be answered by the associations to the members! Many of you have been involved in racing in other states as have I, I can not find any more convoluted representation anywhere.
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Horsecrazy
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Horsecrazy
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jrgators
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Roger wrote:Theo, that statement is profound, these guys have been all over the capital bad mouthing you, Joe, Bob and our movement in general. You are a big man to take all that and still have respect for those who attack you. Thanks for the model to follow.
Sam Houston seems to be doing very well inspite of the small fields, WHY?
What can LS learn from SH? I really feel that is the simple fact that SH is running against 20 or so not so big tracks, while LS is going to go up against all the big boys and about 50 other tracks. If you look at the afternoon racing where SH has some competion, you will see much less money being bet. Yet when our leaders get through with their analysis, the success will be all due to less dates, but I contend that SH could have had more full fields if they would have opened in Nov. 2010. I think anyone can determine that, but I will debate that issue if you want.
Be ready for the fight, we will have less dates proposed.
Good morning everyone! I hope you had good racing luck this past week, and won every race!
Thanks for the kind words Roger, I just like to keep things above board. I know that feelings are strong as the clock runs out.
As for SHRP this meet being good as it is has some fact in your theory IMO as well. The fact according to Mr. Shubeck is that the increase potential in handle for racing vs the loss of bodies in the stands won't be worth the change. I asked this question to him during the race dates issue, but my point was primarily the painful heat in the Dallas area in the Summers in Texas.
I do think that both SHRP, and Retama have shown that Texas horseracing is still viable, and folks will wager on our horseracing. I like you believe that you have to believe that if this meet had been run as originally planned that this could have been a ton better with all of the races potentially being much fuller, and more betting interest in the races. I don't know what the number are, but they seem to have a pretty good balance in win odds as well.
As for the race dates for 2012, who knows at this stage. I fear less days again next year, and the facts that the meets have done well will be a point that the tracks will use. I've stated in the past fewer days will be what we are facing at all 3 tracks. Hopefully, dare I say prayerfully I'm very wrong!!
Have a great day everyone.
Theo
One of the first questions trainers and owners should be asking their board members after the SH meet concludes is how much were the purse accounts affected by the total loss in dates at SH in 2011 vs 09/10. In 2011, thru 2/20 SH’s Export handle is down 9.9 million for 2011! That is just this year alone, not including export numbers when they were not running last year in Dec. On the positive side, live handle is up on fewer live days and that is great for purses and the tracks. Got to love SH getting live handle per day over $100,000 /day. That is pretty good; actually it’s outstanding compared to last year and is now somewhere between Manor and Retama’s live handle last year on a per day basis. A little sarcasm perhaps but let’s put SH live handle numbers in perspective. Manor’s live handle used to beat them on a per day basis and little Gillespie blows them away. Maybe not a “Fair” comparison – sorry couldn’t help that one but you get the point. The live handle numbers have always been so dismal there. Increase in live handle; yes that is great news, but should SH’s live handle really be less than 50% of LS’s live per day handle--- which was $230,000 last year.
Again lets digest some true numbers on the SH meet when it concludes; particularly with respect to loss on export and overall loss of simulcast during the live meet dates for 09/2010 vs 2011. I …. Well the TRC really.. did some projections on the loss of purse money at SH if we did not run a SH meet at all. Curious if any discussions have been had recently at the Board level on the overall purses generated at SH this year vs last and what we have seen in an overall purse decline.
I am certainly overjoyed the THP finally used the proverbial good ‘ole brick bat to make SH run this year. I think there were plenty of suggestions here on the PQ for them to use it much sooner. Glad you guys / girls finally “got it out” after all and saved us. Suggestion #1 --- keep that bat handy so owners/ trainers are not put thru the ringer and the rest of the Texas based trainers head to LA or NM while we wait for a race date calendar for 2012. You can see the significant decline in purses that would have occurred had we lost the $30,000,000 in export SH has generated to date in 2011 plus live handle. Date cuts will not get us out of the crisis; it only lowers simulcast and export handle as we will soon see at SH when we look at full meet comparisons. Actually I hope I am wrong with that one but I think purse numbers are going to be down for year on year comparisons there.
So yes we can cuts dates to boost per day purses but again at what cost to the horsemen and owners and overall purse levels. That should be a nice Board discussion and maybe enlightening when you dig into the numbers for SH and how dates are structured next year. Kind of mixed on the purse increase recently announced at SH, I think it was more to make up the lost day of racing or just exceeding projections than anything else, but good news none the less.
Again lets digest some true numbers on the SH meet when it concludes; particularly with respect to loss on export and overall loss of simulcast during the live meet dates for 09/2010 vs 2011. I …. Well the TRC really.. did some projections on the loss of purse money at SH if we did not run a SH meet at all. Curious if any discussions have been had recently at the Board level on the overall purses generated at SH this year vs last and what we have seen in an overall purse decline.
I am certainly overjoyed the THP finally used the proverbial good ‘ole brick bat to make SH run this year. I think there were plenty of suggestions here on the PQ for them to use it much sooner. Glad you guys / girls finally “got it out” after all and saved us. Suggestion #1 --- keep that bat handy so owners/ trainers are not put thru the ringer and the rest of the Texas based trainers head to LA or NM while we wait for a race date calendar for 2012. You can see the significant decline in purses that would have occurred had we lost the $30,000,000 in export SH has generated to date in 2011 plus live handle. Date cuts will not get us out of the crisis; it only lowers simulcast and export handle as we will soon see at SH when we look at full meet comparisons. Actually I hope I am wrong with that one but I think purse numbers are going to be down for year on year comparisons there.
So yes we can cuts dates to boost per day purses but again at what cost to the horsemen and owners and overall purse levels. That should be a nice Board discussion and maybe enlightening when you dig into the numbers for SH and how dates are structured next year. Kind of mixed on the purse increase recently announced at SH, I think it was more to make up the lost day of racing or just exceeding projections than anything else, but good news none the less.
bdw0617 - Glad you enjoy our track's program! I'd be very interested in hearing what is you like about SHRP - I'm assuming that it's race card is affording you some success at the betting windows. Even though I don't know you personally I have followed many of your posts on this forum and know you enjoy taking on the challenge of handicapping the ponies as to I. Being located in Arkansas affords you more legal means of doing so which I also appreciate. Since you also hail from a state that has IR (Instant Racing) machines as an option for gambling at Oaklawn but no slots to supplement purses I'd like to hear your thoughts on being able to bet the live races at Oaklawn vs. the IRMs at Oaklawn (if you do that form of gambling) vs. betting the simulcast at SHRP? It is players like you we need to attract to our racing product to really begin making some headway and knowing what you 'enjoy' about our track's program would be a start. Arkansas stands out as one neighboring state with a long tradition of holding a successful racing program based on a single track/racing season without a largescale state based breeding program behind it clearly a track/racing program that is very dependant upon attracting 'outside' horses, trainers, jocks, etc. and manages to do so well without the support of slots/racinos. How does Arkansas do that and what can Texas learn from Arkansas in your opinion?
Thanking you in advance for any insights you'd care to share.
Thanking you in advance for any insights you'd care to share.
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keyranch
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I have not and will not contribute to the TTA PAC and support the policys that have been making every effort to put me out of bussiness; just like a number of breeding farms over the last decade! As far as the financing of Texas HORSE, which should be a conflict of interest for the boardmembers of the TTA and HBPA. If you are going to promote that organization then it should be transparent for all to see.
As usual, you do not answer the questions and go directly into intimidation and attack mode. Your leadership of the association should be graded along with the ED as a failure for the loss in membership, the lack of legislative change, and total disregard for the by-laws of the association. The horsemen deserve better and it is far past need for change! The petty attacks on the forum are one thing, but doing it at the offices of legislators is not in your best interest!
I will type real slow for you, we have not and will not disparage VLT legislation to the legislators. We have not and will not lower ourselves to your level of truly childish and disgusting behavior in front of the staffs or legislators. The horsemen deserve better than that!
As usual, you do not answer the questions and go directly into intimidation and attack mode. Your leadership of the association should be graded along with the ED as a failure for the loss in membership, the lack of legislative change, and total disregard for the by-laws of the association. The horsemen deserve better and it is far past need for change! The petty attacks on the forum are one thing, but doing it at the offices of legislators is not in your best interest!
I will type real slow for you, we have not and will not disparage VLT legislation to the legislators. We have not and will not lower ourselves to your level of truly childish and disgusting behavior in front of the staffs or legislators. The horsemen deserve better than that!
I peeked into the Mush Room this morning, and discovered the usual repetitive inanity peppered with some pretty good food for thought (Holy Cognition!!!). Disclaimer for knee-jerk hippophiles: I don’t condone consumption of equine proteins by folks or fauna. Roger, you took down your erroneous post about Lewis Carroll being an opium addict, and I appreciate that. Perhaps you had confused him with Edgar Allen Poe? Actually, Carroll (Charles Dodgson) was a mathematician, literary genius, Christian cleric, and pedophile (by modern definition).
So let’s examine some reasonable commentary and some pretty stupid utterances that crept into the wabe these last few days.
Quotes of Amanita Leader: “The question is were you and are you supportive of the 60 day meet?” Answer: please clearly explain to which 60 day meet you are referring. I find no record of one in Texas. There is a 57 day seasonal meet going on at Oaklawn in Arkansas, and a 56 day meet planned for Lone Star Park. I do not support 60 day meets anywhere on Planet Earth. Never have, never will. Xenon now, that’s another perspective!
“It can not be that expensive to record and have some transcribe and post at a reasonable time.” Answer: Court reporters (transcriptionists) make more money than most of us horsemen, because they read and write better. If you don’t know this, then you are due for a rude awakening very soon!
“THP operates like a union by automatically taking out dues when either you get your license or run a horse.” Answer: Incredibly creative prevarication! Licensing is a function of the TRC and no proceeds whatsoever go to ANY of the associations. When you run a horse, you are allocated your earned portion of the purse as posted in the Racing Program, after $100 is taken out of the total purse for each also-ran. The THP pays the jockey from your proceeds, and pays the photographer for any pics or videos that you authorize. Not one cent is otherwise deducted. You may check your individual statements at the THP website to verify this. If you don’t race in Texas, you probably wouldn’t have figured this out.
“For the life of me, I can not see where any changes in the breed back rule would interfere with that other than changes might improve the participation in the industry.” Answer: Protectionism doesn’t work. Read your history books.
“Might cause people to dust off those mares in the pasture and breed them.” Answer: Might cause people to dust off those mares in the pasture and eat them.
“To partially copy a failed plan and continue as the breeding industry declines, as tax dollars leave the state, as horsemen leave the state is again beyond comprehension.” Answer: Again is a superfluous adverb; beyond comprehension is confirmation of indigenous ignorance that has suffused this Blather Blog since its inception.
Quote, Mr. L: “As far as not breeding your mares this year, that is unfortunate. I have confidence that we will have legislative relief this year, as I have for the past 4 sessions. My mares will be bred, and the majority will be bred in Texas. Through all the turmoil and debate I have never once not felt that relief will not come. Obviously I was hoping sooner, but I plan on being prepared for later as well.” Answer: I am not lucky at the betting window (in spite of witty mentoring by Razoo). So I didn’t breed my mares, and as luck will have it, the VLT legislation will pass! I will be four foals short and a year late in the Texas-bred bonanza, but the Ajo luck (or lack thereof) will make it a worthwhile sacrifice.!
Quote, Dream 2B: “It puts me off attending the meetings if I have to sit there for hours and listen to speakers drone on and on on those topics.” Answer: You would have loved yesterday’s TRC meeting. Joe and Theo weren’t there.
Quote, Theo: “Please understand the difference guys! It's not personal, IT'S BUSINESS!!”
Answer: You’re right about that, by gosh! So get into the business, race some horses, get eligible, and run for the THP board. You’ve got 60 votes in the bag, one for every racing day in Joe’s mythical meet (That may be 59 more votes than I get; my popularity seems to be waning here).”
Quote, Jazette: “Ajo, please tell me what your thoughts are (I would prefer layman terms b/c I really get bored trying to understand what you are trying to say - I was taught in journalism class that in order to catch your reader it has to be done within the first three sentenes). Do you feel that VLT's are the only way out of our current situation? Do you believe that ADW's would help our industry? How do you suggest that we fix our current racing/purse issue? The breedback rule? It seems to me that you are only belittling the small farm horse owners and breeders and not giving us a remedy. Truly, I would like your opinion on what needs to be done to help all owners, breeders and the tracks.” Answer (3 sentences): 1) Go to your regional TTA meetings and show your support for horseracing in Texas. 2) Come to the VLT support rallies in Austin when they are scheduled, and come to ADW support efforts if and when they are scheduled 3) Own only as many horses as you can afford, run them like you love them, and don’t ever let any facet of the horse business bore you!
Quote (and thank you) Jellac: “Arkansas stands out as one neighboring state with a long tradition of holding a successful racing program based on a single track/racing season without a large scale state based breeding program behind it clearly a track/racing program that is very dependant upon attracting 'outside' horses, trainers, jocks, etc. and manages to do so well without the support of slots/racinos. How does Arkansas do that and what can Texas learn from Arkansas in your opinion?” Answer: This question was not asked of me, but I’ll give the forum my two cents’ worth anyway. Sentence one answered sentence two. But Texas is not ready to revert to seasonal meets (read your Blood Horse issue of January 29), so we can’t learn anything from Arkansas because we need every racing day that we can get to have a year-long succession of meets in Texas. Your associations are working for this, and the overwhelming majority of horsemen recognize the efforts.
So let’s examine some reasonable commentary and some pretty stupid utterances that crept into the wabe these last few days.
Quotes of Amanita Leader: “The question is were you and are you supportive of the 60 day meet?” Answer: please clearly explain to which 60 day meet you are referring. I find no record of one in Texas. There is a 57 day seasonal meet going on at Oaklawn in Arkansas, and a 56 day meet planned for Lone Star Park. I do not support 60 day meets anywhere on Planet Earth. Never have, never will. Xenon now, that’s another perspective!
“It can not be that expensive to record and have some transcribe and post at a reasonable time.” Answer: Court reporters (transcriptionists) make more money than most of us horsemen, because they read and write better. If you don’t know this, then you are due for a rude awakening very soon!
“THP operates like a union by automatically taking out dues when either you get your license or run a horse.” Answer: Incredibly creative prevarication! Licensing is a function of the TRC and no proceeds whatsoever go to ANY of the associations. When you run a horse, you are allocated your earned portion of the purse as posted in the Racing Program, after $100 is taken out of the total purse for each also-ran. The THP pays the jockey from your proceeds, and pays the photographer for any pics or videos that you authorize. Not one cent is otherwise deducted. You may check your individual statements at the THP website to verify this. If you don’t race in Texas, you probably wouldn’t have figured this out.
“For the life of me, I can not see where any changes in the breed back rule would interfere with that other than changes might improve the participation in the industry.” Answer: Protectionism doesn’t work. Read your history books.
“Might cause people to dust off those mares in the pasture and breed them.” Answer: Might cause people to dust off those mares in the pasture and eat them.
“To partially copy a failed plan and continue as the breeding industry declines, as tax dollars leave the state, as horsemen leave the state is again beyond comprehension.” Answer: Again is a superfluous adverb; beyond comprehension is confirmation of indigenous ignorance that has suffused this Blather Blog since its inception.
Quote, Mr. L: “As far as not breeding your mares this year, that is unfortunate. I have confidence that we will have legislative relief this year, as I have for the past 4 sessions. My mares will be bred, and the majority will be bred in Texas. Through all the turmoil and debate I have never once not felt that relief will not come. Obviously I was hoping sooner, but I plan on being prepared for later as well.” Answer: I am not lucky at the betting window (in spite of witty mentoring by Razoo). So I didn’t breed my mares, and as luck will have it, the VLT legislation will pass! I will be four foals short and a year late in the Texas-bred bonanza, but the Ajo luck (or lack thereof) will make it a worthwhile sacrifice.!
Quote, Dream 2B: “It puts me off attending the meetings if I have to sit there for hours and listen to speakers drone on and on on those topics.” Answer: You would have loved yesterday’s TRC meeting. Joe and Theo weren’t there.
Quote, Theo: “Please understand the difference guys! It's not personal, IT'S BUSINESS!!”
Answer: You’re right about that, by gosh! So get into the business, race some horses, get eligible, and run for the THP board. You’ve got 60 votes in the bag, one for every racing day in Joe’s mythical meet (That may be 59 more votes than I get; my popularity seems to be waning here).”
Quote, Jazette: “Ajo, please tell me what your thoughts are (I would prefer layman terms b/c I really get bored trying to understand what you are trying to say - I was taught in journalism class that in order to catch your reader it has to be done within the first three sentenes). Do you feel that VLT's are the only way out of our current situation? Do you believe that ADW's would help our industry? How do you suggest that we fix our current racing/purse issue? The breedback rule? It seems to me that you are only belittling the small farm horse owners and breeders and not giving us a remedy. Truly, I would like your opinion on what needs to be done to help all owners, breeders and the tracks.” Answer (3 sentences): 1) Go to your regional TTA meetings and show your support for horseracing in Texas. 2) Come to the VLT support rallies in Austin when they are scheduled, and come to ADW support efforts if and when they are scheduled 3) Own only as many horses as you can afford, run them like you love them, and don’t ever let any facet of the horse business bore you!
Quote (and thank you) Jellac: “Arkansas stands out as one neighboring state with a long tradition of holding a successful racing program based on a single track/racing season without a large scale state based breeding program behind it clearly a track/racing program that is very dependant upon attracting 'outside' horses, trainers, jocks, etc. and manages to do so well without the support of slots/racinos. How does Arkansas do that and what can Texas learn from Arkansas in your opinion?” Answer: This question was not asked of me, but I’ll give the forum my two cents’ worth anyway. Sentence one answered sentence two. But Texas is not ready to revert to seasonal meets (read your Blood Horse issue of January 29), so we can’t learn anything from Arkansas because we need every racing day that we can get to have a year-long succession of meets in Texas. Your associations are working for this, and the overwhelming majority of horsemen recognize the efforts.