Doug O'Neill's Troubled Record Front And Center

[NorthStar]

Maybe Photofinish, you are refering to the supposed good dooiing from milkshakes is concerning, the owner and the trainer, but certainly not the horse.

The horses are getting this kind of stuff, for enhacing their performance and for nothing else.

No sir, that is not what I meant. Baking Soda, is actually good for the horse. Sorry, but it really helps them on a metabolic level, settles their stomachs (bicarb is a main ingredient in may antacids both human and horse), and helps reduce the lactic acid build up in the horse. Fatigue on a metabolic level does not necessarily have to do with amount of training beforehand, it has to do with pure exertion when racing.



I have already stated many times that the "hay, oats, and water" crowd is not only delusional, they do NOT have the horse' best interests at heart. Hay, oats , and water is a fine plan for light use horses and pasture ornaments, but elite atheletes, who train daily and exert themsleves racing deserve all the help and support we can legally give them, without hurting them. Not so much to "run faster" but to help them recover from the effort of racing. There has never been "hay,oats, and water" racing other than a couple guys racing down the road on a chance meeting when horses were transport. The "old guys" in racings's heyday made up more crap than you can shake a stick at and the Euros just use different things that don't test, maybe more herbals and compounds. If anyone thinks otherwise, contact me privately as I have recently acquired some ocean front property and I will sell it to you for a very good price.

Baking Soda can cause a heart attack when in the system during the stress of racing. It is only good for the body when the body is not under stress. Otherwise it is a real gamble for the horse.

A healthy horse, getting the proper drawing down (removal of oats and alfalfa) prior to a race, along with good fitness level and general good health, DOES NOT NEED BAKING SODA to perform well. It needs a properly balanced diet, nutrients and electrolytes and a training program to suit its individual needs and talents.

[docjocoy]

Corruption, melanin? How does that relate to the topic here bast? If I had an edit key here I'd use it but I don't.

Bast was using this quote to make her point. You couldn't see that? Benb had brought up the topic of the feds getting involved in racing, bast was responding. Whether or not you agree, Diane, bast was certainly not off topic since the whole Doug O'neil meds issue and how to regulate or not has been the focus of this thread.
The fact that you have a trigger-happy finger ready to use on an edit key is more disturbing to me than your interpretation of bast being off topic. Perhaps you should pause before YOU post, or at least take time to digest what a poster has actually said. Or perhaps read each post more slowly...

[TJ]

Earlier in this thread I mentioned today was the deadline for horseman to comment on the ruling to ban lasix that is currently on the table in NY. Some may know that this same issue, to ban lasix in Kentucky was not passed....the vote was tied at 7-7. This will turn into quite a sticky issue....politics will play a big role.
Back to NY, they will not have a count on the number of comments the board received until Tuesday. They will weigh the feedback and make their final decision.....hopefully by their next meeting Wednesday, May 30th.
So the wheels are in motion and I would hope a decision for or against the use of Lasix comes prior to the Saratoga meet.
Back to KY, the main reason the ban on lasix tied the board was they were afraid of being first. They thought it would hurt their business as most of the horseman are in favor of lasix on race day. Can't wait to see what happens. TJ

[Bast]

Corruption, melanin? How does that relate to the topic here bast? If I had an edit key here I'd use it but I don't.

Bast was using this quote to make her point. You couldn't see that? Benb had brought up the topic of the feds getting involved in racing, bast was responding. Whether or not you agree, Diane, bast was certainly not off topic since the whole Doug O'neil meds issue and how to regulate or not has been the focus of this thread.
The fact that you have a trigger-happy finger ready to use on an edit key is more disturbing to me than your interpretation of bast being off topic. Perhaps you should pause before YOU post, or at least take time to digest what a poster has actually said. Or perhaps read each post more slowly...

If posts are going to be scrutinized for any possible interpretations of sinfulness, then what is the point of posting?

If anyone still believes that the federal government is not capricious and heavy handed, they need to do some research. You don't have to be a nutty survivalist with 100,000 rounds to be on the receiving end of federal follies.

[ct2346]

Earlier in this thread I mentioned today was the deadline for horseman to comment on the ruling to ban lasix that is currently on the table in NY. Some may know that this same issue, to ban lasix in Kentucky was not passed....the vote was tied at 7-7. This will turn into quite a sticky issue....politics will play a big role.
Back to NY, they will not have a count on the number of comments the board received until Tuesday. They will weigh the feedback and make their final decision.....hopefully by their next meeting Wednesday, May 30th.
So the wheels are in motion and I would hope a decision for or against the use of Lasix comes prior to the Saratoga meet.
Back to KY, the main reason the ban on lasix tied the board was they were afraid of being first. They thought it would hurt their business as most of the horseman are in favor of lasix on race day. Can't wait to see what happens. TJ

I will say this - I've been bombarded with emails the past week or so from NYTHA and "Clean" Racing or whatever they call themselves asking me to sign my name to their preformatted emails aimed at Sabini. Both sides were very active. I wouldn't support either. If they were to implement a plan that limits now, and eliminates after the 2013 birthcrop, I could get behind that. This problem has been brewing for 30 years. You can't solve it in one.

[photofinish]

I always assumed hay, oats and water was a metaphor for using non illegal methods of training. i don't' think anyone would think twice about adding some baking soda to a horses feed, no more than someone would squeeze some lemon juice on a cut to get the sting out of it. At least that's how I always thought of it. I don't' think people, at least I don't think, literally thought people were just using hay, oats and water.

Ahh, but they do think that, they do :

BenB Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:56 am Post subject:

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In natural live a horse would not digest baking soda, so I stick in my opninion

IT,s only good for trainers, and owners pouring horses out to their bones, making a living.

It,s only used for raising the natural capabilty from the horse no more no less

I would love seeiing the fed,s come in, and clean up this small dirty tricks, by heavy suspensions

See? Of course in natural, wild, situations horses only eat oats if they stumble on a field of wild oats growing, and they don't eat vitamins or electrolytes, either.

[photofinish]

Maybe

Baking Soda can cause a heart attack when in the system during the stress of racing. It is only good for the body when the body is not under stress. Otherwise it is a real gamble for the horse.

A healthy horse, getting the proper drawing down (removal of oats and alfalfa) prior to a race, along with good fitness level and general good health, DOES NOT NEED BAKING SODA to perform well. It needs a properly balanced diet, nutrients and electrolytes and a training program to suit its individual needs and talents.

Really? I have not ever heard of an instance of bicarb causing cardiac problems? Not being a smart alec here, could you give me a link to a reference that supports this? Personally, while we don't feed alfalfa 24 hours pre-race (grass hay only), the guys who draw all feed at 12-24 hrs have always amazed me. No other athelete is asked to perform with no food for 12-24 hrs pre-event. That also really aggravates ulcers and ads stress. Even the jocks who try to pull weight by fasting come into the paddock weaving on their feet.

[BenB]

Maybe our way, of keeping racehorses, is just more natural than it might be in the US.

Where Iam living we do not have any heat, highest temperature will be 30 grades at most and only for a couple of weeks.

My horse just gets properly fed on the morning of a race. Water will be off arriving at the grounds. Traveling is in most cases 1,5 hrs. So the lack of water is about 4,5 hr.

This is interesting special the last chapter:

http://jockeyclub.com/pdfs/nys_letter.pdf

Trainers who are taken their horses off the feed for 24 hrs, should face a lifetime immidiate ban.

[BenB]

Suppletie met NatriumBicarbonaat heeft een aantal vervelende bijwerkingen. NatriumBicarbonaat kan maagdarmklachten geven. Daarnaast verlaagt NatriumBicarbonaat de pH van het bloed wat spierkrampen en hartritmestoornissen kan veroorzaken. Ook kan langdurig gebruik van NatriumBicarbonaat de vorming van nierstenen en blaasstenen veroorzaken.

You need to find an translator, but this was published in an Dutch paper.

[Jessi P]

From google translater:

Supplementation with sodium bicarbonate has some unpleasant side effects. Sodium bicarbonate can gastrointestinal complaints. Sodium bicarbonate also lowers the pH of the blood which can cause muscle cramps and cardiac arrhythmias. Also, prolonged use of sodium bicarbonate the formation of kidney stones and bladder stones cause.

[oleos93]

Photo has nailed it....it does cause more harm then good to take a horse off feed for that long, every nutrition book you find will tell you this....sorry in the wild the horse does not stop and ask the Lion "hey, can you give my tummy some time to digest my food before I take off at 35 mph to get away from you" I feel the same way about "warming up". Again, a horse does not ask the Lion, "Hey can you give me 10 min to warm up before I sprint 35 mph to get away from you eating me"

We really do need to take it ALL back the simple basics of the animal...if we are all God fearing people and know that the horse is the SAME as it was 200 years ago then we would stop trying to make them internally into something they are not. Racing has been around for centuries and they did not have drugs.

I do not use race day med's. Someone got wind of this a few weeks ago and asked me why and I believe they where very surprised...well take bute for example. In one of my mares races last year, she got squeezed coming out of the gate, Jock pulled her up she was limping a bit but walked it off fast. Vet checked her said she was fine. Was NOT on bute....had she BEEN on bute, my argument is, YES she would have kept going but at who's expense. Vet would not have looked at her and her continuing may have cause more damage and I like my horses to finish their career sound and be able to be used in another discipline. Winning is not everything.

That is just my opinion on one allowed race day drug. Don't get me wrong, I use it when needed, but in this case my mare was sound ALREADY, so why would I give her something she did not need???

Same goes with Lasix, a drug found by accident to stop bleeding in horses and a drug that was formed for other reasons. It dehydrates and everything elce it does to harm really does not matter because when you dehydrate, the muscles shut down......who would use a drug like that???

[TJ]

California is set to begin procedings on O'Neill's TCO2 positives. No matter what the outcome, it won't interfere with O'Neill being allowed to run I'll Have Another in the Belmont. TJ

http://www.drf.com/news/belmont-stakes- ... cing-board

[karenkarenn]

and its here
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... -violation

[BenB]

He is damn lucky, to get only 45 days.

[oleos93]

So if suspended what does that mean exactly for him....is he banned from the track for that period of time and is that just in CA? Does he sit at home and twiddle his thumbs until suspension is over?

I really feel for him. Know one really knows what goes on in one's heart and mind, he seems adamant he did nothing wrong and I will not judge. There is so much adversary out there that when we are on top of our game it is then that people start pointing fingers and trying to find every fault you have,

I wish him well.