Bad stallions ...

[Roma]

Sadler`s Wells is a Sweetheart.

[summerhorse]

There are certainly bad stallions but I don't think they pass the "badness" down as much as their aggressive or excitable natures and when those natures are not, well, nurtured, they CAN turn bad. But I think a lot of times the mare can raise the foal right by a bad stallion and also the other way, if she's a witch her foal may be also even if the sire was as sweet as can be.

the way stallions are "managed" have a lot to do with their attitudes. If they left them out 24/7 with a run in shed (and a turn out blanket if necessary) they'd probably have a lot fewer problems. For feeding and catching they could build a chute into their paddocks (for the really bad boys).

Ribot was a nutcase. I don't know if he was so much mean as just plain crazy. If he had been a person he would have probably spent his life in an institution with lots of padding. I think maybe he was also the one with a net in his stall because he'd climb the walls in there too? But if they only let him out an hour a day well NO WONDER! When he was supposed to go back he was simply deemed too crazy to transport safely and I think the farm was able to buy him. I think perhaps the owners wanted nothing more to do with him after seeing him. I don't remember though.

Dynaformer has a well deserved rep for being mean as a snake but I don't think his foals get that so much. Although they probably do (or as least a good many of them) get his aggressive no nonsense attitude (which only comes naturally to a racehorse, they are bred for that after all.)

I tend to think that the way horses are raised in the TB industry at the higher end is a primary cause of dysfunctinal horses (i.e. one step from factory farming, tons of horses, stallions isolated, foals allowed to run wild then "broken" versus being trained all along). While you do see that at smaller farms due to handler incompetence or simply a very highly strung or aggressive horse it seems that MOST people with small farms and their own stallions don't have the problem with man eaters the way the big ones do.

[xfactor fan]

Is there any connection between crazy stallions and farms that use Rye for bedding? I ran across one of those "horse traditions" that said not to bed mares on rye, but it was ok for stallions.

My first thought was, ok, ergot on rye can cause abortions so that makes sense. The second thought was, gee, I sure wouldn't want to be around a stallion that was high on LSD. Ergot is a natural source of LSD, and may have been the cause of the Salem witch trials.

[zinn21]

Probably the truth lies between Darlene Knight's post and the rest of the others. Good horsmanship goes a long way with many stallions. On the other hand horses personalities run the gamut from jokesters to depressed types to very mean spirited animals. To date I have not seen mean spirited behavior changed other than by medication.

[summerhorse]

I don't know anyone who uses rye for bedding. Is that common? The only problem I've seen with rye grass is that it is sometimes just too rich for many horses esp. TBs and ponies. And any horse that has foundered or colicked from rich feed.

It is my opinion that truly dangerous horses or psychotic ones should be put down. My guess is that even though Dynaformer is a handful they obviously can get him in and out of stalls and paddocks.

But a horse like In Tissar who couldn't be handled or allowed free access to a mare should be put down no matter what he sires as far as runners with the possible exception of NONE of his foals ever inheriting that personality or psychosis.

Festival Of Light severely injured or killed someone and was gelded and they tried to turn him into a riding horse. But someone posted they had to put him down later anyway? I don't know, I never saw any obit. for him.

[Nessa]

I think based on the information available you can place blame for Hastings temperament on his dam Cinderella, the same can be said for Flying Fox and his hellish dam Vampire.

[camohn]

Stallions aside I have had a few mares that were borderline nut cases come off the track and after getting off Equipoise and turnout for 3 or 4 mos became a whole nuther critter. In the case of a stallion that is generally even more isolated then it seems it would be worse. That is not to say that there are not nut jobs......be horses or humans they are out there. Folks are always amazed that our stallion lives out with either his bred mares here or a herd of several geldings at his trainers. He has been raised with social skills since he was a yearling. Now not all stallions could probably live out with a herd of geldings like he does......but I think a lot of them would benefit from a more normal social life. FWIW his trainer is sure not used to turnign stallions out in company. When I told her she could do so she was too nervous to do it for a a couple months. She did finally try it adding 1 gelding at a time and he has been fine. He was actually bullied by a small pony. Now that the pony was sold he is the top of the heap. The only horse he chases is his yearling son that his trainer bought. She keeps an eye on them (only turns him out w/ others while she is at the barn to keep an eye on them) but so far it seems to be in play more than anything else.

[TrueColours]

Spot Pocket was also turned out with an older gelding before I got him and I remember going to Blazing Colours one day and their TB stallion - Dehere Bliss - was out with 1 or 2 geldings and his owner said that Dehere Bliss usually got the short end of the stick and came in with all the bite marks and fur pulled out of HIM! and not the other way around ...

[austique]

Mares do have a huge influence as the foal gets most of the life lessons from the mare. For instance my In Excess (IRE) who I've already stated is a touch ... eccentric, had a filly last year and the farm calls and says "She beautiful and didn't get a bit of mom's nasty attitude." A month later, I get "You have to watch the filly she will kick you if she gets half the chance." Ahhh...just like her mother who the vet said was the first mare to ever try to bite, slap and cow kick him all at the same time (she's very talented). The sire of the foal tends to throw very good minds, so it didn't come from him.

[louis finochio]

TLC is whats needed in those agressive hot head stallions. Some stallions get turned off when those bad grooms dont take the time for TLC and will strike out at those grooms.

Its better to have a stallion that has fire in his eyes than and shy stallion that wont make an impression in the breeding shed.

Many horseman can turn a TB in about face, as they are professional horseman.

Years ago this trainer claimed a TB that would not run a lick for other trainers and this trainer found this TB hole card.

This TB didnt want to be brushed and given a bath, so the trainers just squirted this TB off with a hose and the TB loved it.

This same TB had to be loaded in the van with his face looking at the rear door, as he would through a fit if loaded looking straight ahead.

This TB won many races for this trainer, and this is a example of what happens when you pay attention to detail.

Many are called and few are chosen, as this saying fits both trainers and TB.

[sunday_silence]

Silver Ghost is known for having a bad mean streak. I asked the man who takes care of him how he deals with it and he said that he just has to be really kind to him. The horse will not tolerate being manhandled or strongarmed. I believe that aggression was the approach long taken with Personal Flag, until McMahon of Saratoga got ahold of him. They took a totally different tact, mostly leaving him alone, with lots of turnout and only minimal grooming. They had very few problems with him.

[camohn]

He He. The only not so nice mare we have is by US Flag
She had been known to kick at the race farm she came from. We were told to watch out for dem hind feet......especially at feeding time. On the cross ties she pins her ears and really does not like being groomed and fussed over either. Must be a family trait As to the kicking she did get cracked on the hind foot with a crop when she thought about kicking me. I really don't tolerate that. Now she will lift a hind foot and think about it, but that's it.
However, this mare is great once you are on her back. She is a super athlete. My hubby gave her to me though since he hates her personality. She is in foal to our stallion. It will be interesting to see how she does as a first time mom. She was out with 3 other broodmares and their babies this summer. Her joined at the hip buddy: treated that mare's foal like it was hers. The other 2 foals she just hated.

[Nijinsky]

I like what Summerhorse said...very good points. I defently do think temperament is passed down, like everything else through the first couple generations. I now this for a fact just looking at what my mares have produced some more regular than others. Just look at people more than likely they are just like one of the parents if not a grandparent in many ways.

Here is an interesting artical I found on the subject. ENJOY

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:2hI ... =clnk&cd=4

[ZiaLand]

Dalene Knight....I would have loved to see you handle WALTER WILLY along with his sire SADLER'S WELLS. Walter Willy was known as a man killer....maybe just be the reason he was put down.

Hi Nijinsky,

Walter Willy was put down due to a brain embolism or similar malady during the terrible heat wave in California. Although I understand from his previous owner that he was very difficult to handle, the owner said WW was manageable if he had a calm, confident handler. I also understand Walter Willy was very much a gentleman with the mares.

BTW, his former owner is a member of this forum.

Laurie

[Nijinsky]

Hi Zialand Yes I know who his former owner is...he has had many....he has also hurt many. Most of which were very confident.

I heard two different stories and tend to lean more towards one knowing the horse personally. Yes he was ok with the mares but when it came to people he couldn't be handled at all....not even having his feet done. Believe what you want....the horse must not have had any shade or enough water to die from Northern Ca. heat.....what a crying shame