Speaking of very rare unusual pedigrees: Post the rarest:
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Bill from WA
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Wow, quite a rare tail-male lineage before coming across Lexington. Thanks for this watch.-
MyStormyBaby
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I always thought this was a really neat horse...you don't see many 1st crop stallions this year that are bred like this: 
http://www.pedigreequery.com/the+fed
http://www.pedigreequery.com/the+fed
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feartinybubbles
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feartinybubbles
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My question is simple... What constitutes a rare pedigree!
In my opinion it would be pedigrees lines that you can't find anymore or there aren't many breedable horses left. One of the lines that is hard to find is the Tourbillion line. He was from the Byerly Turk.
Lisa
Lisa
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geowarrior
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There are probably as many opinions on this as there are on handicapping systems, and I'm no expert, but I see some themes running through this thread.
That's why I don't think the person who spoke in Louis' name was being rude - few or no crosses of Phalaris would be one interpretation of a rare pedigree.
Since the majority of thoroughbred horses are descended from the Darley Arabian (the other two foundation stallions being the Byerly Turk and the Godolphin Arabian), any horse that is tail male to either the Godolphin Arabian or the Byerly Turk would be considered by many to have a rare pedigree. Sires tail male to the Byerly Turk are particularly rare in N. Am. and Jellac, who posts on this board is an expert on those. Sires tail male to the Godolphin Arabian are mostly through Man 'O War, through Intentionally, although someone earlier on this thread found a sireline that was Godophin but with a different line.
Another 'theme' regarding unusual pedigrees running on this thread is where there has been very close inbreeding, which most people consider inadvisable and therefore a pedigree showing this would be another interpretation of 'unusual'.
Rarely observed inbreeding would be another interpretation - for example I think someone quoted a pedigree with a 3x3 to Ribot, which I don't think is too common.
Another interpretation I suppose would be a horse with no Northern Dancer, Seattle Slew, Mr. Prospector etc. etc. in its pedigree, not considered 'unusual' in the sense that this thread was started, because there are still plenty of those about, but certainly a pedigree without any of the major sires of the last 50 years or so would be less common.
Even if a horse is descended from the Darley Arabian, some sirelines are more obscure than others, and have almost died out, and so that would be considered unusual also.
I'm sure people posting to this thread can add to this list, but I hope that helps a bit.
That's why I don't think the person who spoke in Louis' name was being rude - few or no crosses of Phalaris would be one interpretation of a rare pedigree.
Since the majority of thoroughbred horses are descended from the Darley Arabian (the other two foundation stallions being the Byerly Turk and the Godolphin Arabian), any horse that is tail male to either the Godolphin Arabian or the Byerly Turk would be considered by many to have a rare pedigree. Sires tail male to the Byerly Turk are particularly rare in N. Am. and Jellac, who posts on this board is an expert on those. Sires tail male to the Godolphin Arabian are mostly through Man 'O War, through Intentionally, although someone earlier on this thread found a sireline that was Godophin but with a different line.
Another 'theme' regarding unusual pedigrees running on this thread is where there has been very close inbreeding, which most people consider inadvisable and therefore a pedigree showing this would be another interpretation of 'unusual'.
Rarely observed inbreeding would be another interpretation - for example I think someone quoted a pedigree with a 3x3 to Ribot, which I don't think is too common.
Another interpretation I suppose would be a horse with no Northern Dancer, Seattle Slew, Mr. Prospector etc. etc. in its pedigree, not considered 'unusual' in the sense that this thread was started, because there are still plenty of those about, but certainly a pedigree without any of the major sires of the last 50 years or so would be less common.
Even if a horse is descended from the Darley Arabian, some sirelines are more obscure than others, and have almost died out, and so that would be considered unusual also.
I'm sure people posting to this thread can add to this list, but I hope that helps a bit.
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feartinybubbles
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geowarrior
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Ok I don't think I've seen one quite like this. Any comments?
http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-27688
http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-27688
Grey Dawn top and bottom suggests Soundness bred to Soundness to me. This advertized descendant, Cinesilver, had 28 outs lifetime, retired sound to go on to a new career and I would imagine was better at the longer races than at the sprints. I would also suspect a horse that might do better on grass than on dirt.
Grey Dawn's sire, Herbager, another exemplar of the Dark Ronald line has 24 "Professional" points in his dosage profile and I'll promise you that whether you believe in Dosage theory/methodology or not this means a horse that could run - and win over a route of ground, right on up to a 2 mile "marathon" race. Often you see horses that are this heavily weighted in the "Professional" category as steeplechasers or hurdlers. Herbager also carries the close inbreeding to Firadussi on his materanl side of the pedigree.
If you look at Grey Dawn's progeny records you'll see a multitude of solid racers that put in from 15 outs at the low end to over a 100 at the upper end. You won't find that pattern in many modern top sires' progeny records today.
Grey Dawn's sire, Herbager, another exemplar of the Dark Ronald line has 24 "Professional" points in his dosage profile and I'll promise you that whether you believe in Dosage theory/methodology or not this means a horse that could run - and win over a route of ground, right on up to a 2 mile "marathon" race. Often you see horses that are this heavily weighted in the "Professional" category as steeplechasers or hurdlers. Herbager also carries the close inbreeding to Firadussi on his materanl side of the pedigree.
If you look at Grey Dawn's progeny records you'll see a multitude of solid racers that put in from 15 outs at the low end to over a 100 at the upper end. You won't find that pattern in many modern top sires' progeny records today.
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geowarrior
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Wow, Jellac
Very interesting. I'm always interested in information about breeding soundness, I had no idea that Grey Dawn was a marker for soundness. I wonder if they fact that I thought that inbreeding was unusual is some kind of indicator as to how many people are interested in breeding for that kind of soundness today?
Very interesting. I'm always interested in information about breeding soundness, I had no idea that Grey Dawn was a marker for soundness. I wonder if they fact that I thought that inbreeding was unusual is some kind of indicator as to how many people are interested in breeding for that kind of soundness today?
Herbager
Hallo,
I'm not sure, whether my posting fits in.
Another strain of Herbager, other then Grey Dawn went to Germany, the Italianbred Sire Appiani. Besides Star Appeal, (Arc Winner), he was regarded as failure at stud. Star Appeal had in Germany 2 sons named Diu Star and Kamiros standing at stud, both couldn't found a lasting Sireline. Star Appeal's son Star Way was send to Australia/New Zealand, according the listing in the database he had several offspring "downunder", so it's possible his sireline will/can extend in this part of the world.
Grey Dawn had a son named Dunbeath and to my surprise he seemed to stand now in Czechslovakia/Austria, because a lot his foals carrying the AUT/CZE tag. Maybe our Czech poster can give more insight.
Interestingly Appiani are to found in the Damlines of Tiger Hill (by Danehill) now at Darley in England and Ungaro (by Goofalik) standing in France (so far I know at the National Stud). One of the best 3 year olds in my home country Aspectus (by Spectrum) is bred 4x5 Herbager.
Just a few month ago I realised Star Appeal traces back to Bay Ronald, but opposite to Dark Ronald via his son Son-In-Law.
Regards, Bettina
I'm not sure, whether my posting fits in.
Another strain of Herbager, other then Grey Dawn went to Germany, the Italianbred Sire Appiani. Besides Star Appeal, (Arc Winner), he was regarded as failure at stud. Star Appeal had in Germany 2 sons named Diu Star and Kamiros standing at stud, both couldn't found a lasting Sireline. Star Appeal's son Star Way was send to Australia/New Zealand, according the listing in the database he had several offspring "downunder", so it's possible his sireline will/can extend in this part of the world.
Grey Dawn had a son named Dunbeath and to my surprise he seemed to stand now in Czechslovakia/Austria, because a lot his foals carrying the AUT/CZE tag. Maybe our Czech poster can give more insight.
Interestingly Appiani are to found in the Damlines of Tiger Hill (by Danehill) now at Darley in England and Ungaro (by Goofalik) standing in France (so far I know at the National Stud). One of the best 3 year olds in my home country Aspectus (by Spectrum) is bred 4x5 Herbager.
Just a few month ago I realised Star Appeal traces back to Bay Ronald, but opposite to Dark Ronald via his son Son-In-Law.
Regards, Bettina
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vineyridge
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Have we discussed Siphon? Brazilian horse standing in the US for cheap.
http://www.pedigreequery.com/siphon
He's only got one cross to Phalaris, and is tail male to Prince Bio through Sicambre.
VERY unusual pedigree.
Edited to say that I checked his pedigree farther back and he's got six lines to Phalaris, but only one to Nearco. Except for that one line, no Sickle and only one other Pharos through Owen Tudor. Two to Fairway in one horse, one to Caerleon, and one to Parwiz. The Nearco line is from his son, Argentina.
Edited again to correct my error. Argentina is a daughter of Nearco.
http://www.pedigreequery.com/siphon
He's only got one cross to Phalaris, and is tail male to Prince Bio through Sicambre.
VERY unusual pedigree.
Edited to say that I checked his pedigree farther back and he's got six lines to Phalaris, but only one to Nearco. Except for that one line, no Sickle and only one other Pharos through Owen Tudor. Two to Fairway in one horse, one to Caerleon, and one to Parwiz. The Nearco line is from his son, Argentina.
Edited again to correct my error. Argentina is a daughter of Nearco.
Last edited by vineyridge on Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:36 am, edited 3 times in total.
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