Penny Chenery on the Triple Crown and Racing Integrity

[casallc]

Not only that, but I don't get what you mean.
What was wrong with her statement besides being (arguably) a little severe?

Other than being plain stupid, it was hypocritical. Lucien Laurin was banned for life as a jockey after being caught with a buzzer at the track.

Hi casallc,
You're not completely right about Lucien Laurin. I'm sure you were aware that back in the day lots of riders carried a joint into the paddock like it was their whip. Lucien was caught with a joint and given a 3 year suspension, not life. He claimed he was framed, that someone put it in his pocket.....well what would you say? It turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to him as he was granted a trainer's license 1 year after serving his suspension. TJ

No, I'll stand behind my statement. In racing there are no absolutes - especially where stewards, commissions and lawyers are involved. The original ruling was appealed and reduced. One of the reasons that horse racing gets such a bad rap is there is no consistency.

[casallc]

I don't believe (even if Sec. was on steroids) back then they are anywhere near as medically advanced as they are today. smaller doses, stronger results, synthetic style medication..

Anabolic steroids and natural testosterone have been widely used in horses since the 50s and 60s. I've been racing horses since then and it was nothing new then. Anabolic steroids were first developed in the 1930s.

[Sysonby]

It was accepted back in the 70s that Secretariat was probably on steroids and that had an effect on his early stud career.

I recall reading this at the time and I don't recall any huffy denials.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

At the first hint of trouble with the Tweedy stallions, discussions began concerning the possible cause of the problem. Since both horses came from the same barn, Trainer Lucien Laurin was queried about medication used while at the track. He assured everyone that the champions had not received unusual or dangerous treatment.

This could be quite true, but questions are now being raised throughout racing about what is referred to as usual treatment. Increasingly, racehorses are receiving heavy doses of drugs, vitamins and steroids. In the old days there was less racing, and horses could rest from October until March. Now with classic colts competing year-round, track veterinarians are pressed by trainers to keep their runners constantly in top shape. Not nearly enough study has been devoted to the effects of booster medication. Many trainers have no idea what a vet is using on their animals and could not care less as long as the treatment is legal. The vet, in turn, has little concern over the effects on the horse after his racing years are over. He figures there will be other vets to treat the horse at the breeding farm. Modern steroids do help thoroughbreds remain at their physical peaks, but few people know what effect this medication may have on the genitalia. Similarly, the repeated use of hormones may diminish a horse's breeding capacity.

Of course it was completely legal pre Big Brown and Dutrow but not exactly pure as the driven snow.

[Pan Zareta]

Anabolic steroids were first developed in the 1930s.

Artificial steroids were first developed in the 1930s. Naturally occurring steroids come in two forms, anabolic ('build up') and catabolic ('tear down'). "Anabolic steroid" is not synonymous with "artificial steroid", regardless of what common usage would have you believe. The anabolic action of testosterone was understood and used for clinical applications much earlier than the 1930s. Use of exogenous substances to improve equine performance goes back even further. The Comanche used all manner of substances, including jimson weed, to tweak their ponies. I'd bet that this notion first occurred around the time the horse was domesticated.

No defense of such practices is implied here, just the observation that human nature being what it is, this is unlikely to cease altogether. I completely agree with the spirit of Penny Chenery's remarks, but Laurin was certainly not universally regarded as "clean" when she hired him. O'Neill is to be commended for his response which gives the media nowhere to go with the drama they're attempting to manufacture.

[BenB]

What happend is just that the level total carbon was exceeded.

This means that the level what is permitted already was reached, and any type of product with some carbon in it, was an overuse.

There are enough feed producers, that develop feeds to reach the accepted norm. BTW this is called natural.

To me it is strange that he been caught already a couple of times ( O,Neil)
and I do not have one problem with the punishment. In my opinion he is just lucky.

[Matchemforever]

Sounds like Secretariat probably wasn't "clean" in the sense that he ran only using his physical gifts.

My problem with Chenery is, don't go calling out O'Neil if your slate isn't perfectly clean.

It doesn't matter what kind or strength they were back in Secretariat's day. Either the horse was a clean slate throughout his racing career, or Chenery is being a bit "selective" in what she considers good for racing or not. If Secretariat was given steroids, she's in the same camp she's putting O'Neil and his owner in. That's the problem with what she's done.

[TJ]

The thing some may not understands is that using steroids was not illegal. It wasn't illegal when Rick Dutrow announced he was giving small doses to Big Brown. Steroids were given 2 to 3 times a month to horses back in Big Red's day...some received weekly doses. Winstrol V, originally produced for dogs was used by some, but the steroid of choice was Equipoise developed specifically for race horses. TJ

[TJ]

Not only that, but I don't get what you mean.
What was wrong with her statement besides being (arguably) a little severe?

Other than being plain stupid, it was hypocritical. Lucien Laurin was banned for life as a jockey after being caught with a buzzer at the track.

Hi casallc,
You're not completely right about Lucien Laurin. I'm sure you were aware that back in the day lots of riders carried a joint into the paddock like it was their whip. Lucien was caught with a joint and given a 3 year suspension, not life. He claimed he was framed, that someone put it in his pocket.....well what would you say? It turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to him as he was granted a trainer's license 1 year after serving his suspension. TJ

No, I'll stand behind my statement. In racing there are no absolutes - especially where stewards, commissions and lawyers are involved. The original ruling was appealed and reduced. One of the reasons that horse racing gets such a bad rap is there is no consistency.

Hi Casallc,
I respect your statement and opinion....but I do know this issue was thoroughly looked into when Laurin came to race in NY. Francis P. Dunne was the toughest, but fairest steward that ever lived and he delved into Laurin's record very deeply. Mr. Dunne became a steward in NY in 1942, that was the year they granted Laurin a trainers license in New England, so he knew the real details. If he granted Laurin a license to train in NY, that says a lot. TJ

[casallc]

Not only that, but I don't get what you mean.
What was wrong with her statement besides being (arguably) a little severe?

Other than being plain stupid, it was hypocritical. Lucien Laurin was banned for life as a jockey after being caught with a buzzer at the track.

Hi casallc,
You're not completely right about Lucien Laurin. I'm sure you were aware that back in the day lots of riders carried a joint into the paddock like it was their whip. Lucien was caught with a joint and given a 3 year suspension, not life. He claimed he was framed, that someone put it in his pocket.....well what would you say? It turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to him as he was granted a trainer's license 1 year after serving his suspension. TJ

No, I'll stand behind my statement. In racing there are no absolutes - especially where stewards, commissions and lawyers are involved. The original ruling was appealed and reduced. One of the reasons that horse racing gets such a bad rap is there is no consistency.

Hi Casallc,
I respect your statement and opinion....but I do know this issue was thoroughly looked into when Laurin came to race in NY. Francis P. Dunne was the toughest, but fairest steward that ever lived and he delved into Laurin's record very deeply. Mr. Dunne became a steward in NY in 1942, that was the year they granted Laurin a trainers license in New England, so he knew the real details. If he granted Laurin a license to train in NY, that says a lot. TJ

I don't think anyone knows for sure. It was a long time ago and there are not the resources for the average person to find out. Regardless, Laurin was caught with a machine and ruled off as a cheat. It is hardly uncommon for steward’s rulings to be renegotiated.

I remember when convicted felons were not allowed on the race track but felons are now subject to approval depending on the amount of clout they have behind them. Stewards are much like politicians - they get the position by spending time as other racing officials and not getting caught doing anything terrible - not for their wisdom and judgement. Stewards are not infallible and NY stewards, especially, show their ignorance regularly.

[TJ]

Not only that, but I don't get what you mean.
What was wrong with her statement besides being (arguably) a little severe?

Other than being plain stupid, it was hypocritical. Lucien Laurin was banned for life as a jockey after being caught with a buzzer at the track.

Hi casallc,
You're not completely right about Lucien Laurin. I'm sure you were aware that back in the day lots of riders carried a joint into the paddock like it was their whip. Lucien was caught with a joint and given a 3 year suspension, not life. He claimed he was framed, that someone put it in his pocket.....well what would you say? It turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to him as he was granted a trainer's license 1 year after serving his suspension. TJ

No, I'll stand behind my statement. In racing there are no absolutes - especially where stewards, commissions and lawyers are involved. The original ruling was appealed and reduced. One of the reasons that horse racing gets such a bad rap is there is no consistency.

Hi Casallc,
I respect your statement and opinion....but I do know this issue was thoroughly looked into when Laurin came to race in NY. Francis P. Dunne was the toughest, but fairest steward that ever lived and he delved into Laurin's record very deeply. Mr. Dunne became a steward in NY in 1942, that was the year they granted Laurin a trainers license in New England, so he knew the real details. If he granted Laurin a license to train in NY, that says a lot. TJ

I don't think anyone knows for sure. It was a long time ago and there are not the resources for the average person to find out. Regardless, Laurin was caught with a machine and ruled off as a cheat. It is hardly uncommon for steward’s rulings to be renegotiated.

I remember when convicted felons were not allowed on the race track but felons are now subject to approval depending on the amount of clout they have behind them. Stewards are much like politicians - they get the position by spending time as other racing officials and not getting caught doing anything terrible - not for their wisdom and judgement. Stewards are not infallible and NY stewards, especially, show their ignorance regularly.

Hi Cas,
You are describing modern day stewards...what I told you isn't pulled out of thin air. Francis P. Dunne was renowned for his fairness and his stern rulings. He was a horseman....not a politician. You couldn't pull the wool over his eyes under any circumstances. One of my immediate family member's was assistant steward to Francis Dunne at the time. TJ