Here are a few older 'flashy' European TB sires:
Marcion (Royal Hampton - Emmeline Marcia - 1890)
Blaze face, 1-C, 2-C, 3-E, 4-E
Great Scot (Lochiel - Scotch Mary - 1899)
Large blaze, extends onto bottom lip
1-E, 2-E, 3-E (half-way up on left hind)
His front stockings are very high on cannon bone, and might extend up onto knee on right front (can't tell from photo)
Gallinule (Isonomy - Moorhen - 1884)
A well-known stallion of the times. Large blaze, 2-D/E (in front, the white extends well up cannon bone, in back just to ankle; with spots in coronet), 3-E, 4-E
Bend Or (Doncaster - Rouge Rose - listed as 1877)
On his right side, he has a noticeable white spot (perhaps 2") with two small spots under it. They are very likely just saddle marks/scars, but I can't tell. He is not overly brightly marked, legwise (3-D/E), but he seems to have some white face marking (not obvious in photo). Seems a bright chestnut. I'm sure there are photos around which might show the spot(s) well.
Regarding Rosewood, the information listed on her in this book is:
Rosewood, ch. 1914, Magneto - Rose Tree II. The flashy foal, according to the photo, is her 1929 foal. Rosewood herself does not seem flashy (at least her legs - the face markings aren't visible) - just the foal.
Unfortunately, as the photo was meant to show the mare - the foal just happens to be in the shot - it has no foal name information. Just "1929."
LOTOWHITE (1947) any photo to be seen
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
Dear StayOutFront,
I earnestly appreciate your valuable participation and watches. In synthesis the Pennants, Bend'Ors and the "Brooms" are very good examples yet you have added even greater obscure names too. Wow great!
Horses with unusually-located solitary spots, scattered roanings, above the knee/hock markings and even rabicanos were very very scarce back during the pre-1950s and are GREAT FINDS indeed.
I earnestly appreciate your descriptions.
Thanks again.
Blessings,
I earnestly appreciate your valuable participation and watches. In synthesis the Pennants, Bend'Ors and the "Brooms" are very good examples yet you have added even greater obscure names too. Wow great!
Horses with unusually-located solitary spots, scattered roanings, above the knee/hock markings and even rabicanos were very very scarce back during the pre-1950s and are GREAT FINDS indeed.
I earnestly appreciate your descriptions.
Thanks again.
Blessings,
-
StayOutFront
- Maiden Special Weight
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- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:29 pm
This is fun! And judi, Sardanapale was a real beauty - great find.
A few more older flashy European models follow. Again, none have wild markings, such as above-the-hock white or large spots. But they have an unusual amount of white for the times.
You are right, Jorge - I never noticed how few flashy TBs there were back then! These books mostly have photo after photo of minimally marked TBs.
Fels (brown, 1903, by Hannibal - Festa, by St. Simon) - Sire listed chestnut, dam brown- He has a wide blaze that extends down over the left nostril, at least, to the mouth (does not include lower lip). 1-C, 3-D, 4-D. Unless there is a problem in the printing, Fels seems to have a few scattered SMALL white spots - 4 or 5, smaller than a dime - on his hindquarters. However, this might be an error in printing, so if another photo of him could be found it might substantiate.
St. Victrix (chestnut, 1906, by St. Maclou - Daughter of 19, by Victor Chief) - Sire listed bay, dam a chestnut - Blaze face, medium width, and four white legs: 1-D, 2-D, 3-E, 4-E
Procope (ch.h., 1903, by St. Bris - Princess Bee, by Royal Hampton) - Fairly wide blaze, medium between eyes and widening down near nostrils; 2-C, 3-C, 4-E (on 4, white in back goes simply to pastern, in front it extends up quite high in front)
Master Magpie (ch. h., 1905, by Gallinule (no surprise)- Meddlesome, by St. Gatien) - Dam is listed as a bay, sire a chestnut - Fairly wide blaze extends down and covers all of left nostril. Four whites, including right front nearly to knee. 1-E, 2-E, 3-E, 4-E
Trendennis (ch.h., 1898, by Kendal 16 - St. Marguerite, by Hermit) - Both sire and dam are listed chestnuts - Fairly wide blaze extends through left nostril to mouth (none on lip that I can see). 1-C, 3-E, 4-E
Neil Gow (ch.h., 1907, by Marco - Chelandry, by Goldfinch) - Sire is chestnut, dam bay - Blaze face, narrow at top but very wide from middle -bottom, covers most of left nostril. 1-C, 2-E, 3-E, 4-E. He has a small white spot up near his withers, as do so many from that time..but I'm guessing that, like most, it's a saddle mark
Mintagon (ch.h., 1901, by Martagon - Mimi, by Barcaldine) - Sire and dam are listed bays - Medium blaze, extends down between nostrils. 1-E, 3-E, 4-E. Both hind leg markings are quite high on cannon bones
Each photo is from the left side, so I might be missing some markings on right sides.
A few more older flashy European models follow. Again, none have wild markings, such as above-the-hock white or large spots. But they have an unusual amount of white for the times.
You are right, Jorge - I never noticed how few flashy TBs there were back then! These books mostly have photo after photo of minimally marked TBs.
Fels (brown, 1903, by Hannibal - Festa, by St. Simon) - Sire listed chestnut, dam brown- He has a wide blaze that extends down over the left nostril, at least, to the mouth (does not include lower lip). 1-C, 3-D, 4-D. Unless there is a problem in the printing, Fels seems to have a few scattered SMALL white spots - 4 or 5, smaller than a dime - on his hindquarters. However, this might be an error in printing, so if another photo of him could be found it might substantiate.
St. Victrix (chestnut, 1906, by St. Maclou - Daughter of 19, by Victor Chief) - Sire listed bay, dam a chestnut - Blaze face, medium width, and four white legs: 1-D, 2-D, 3-E, 4-E
Procope (ch.h., 1903, by St. Bris - Princess Bee, by Royal Hampton) - Fairly wide blaze, medium between eyes and widening down near nostrils; 2-C, 3-C, 4-E (on 4, white in back goes simply to pastern, in front it extends up quite high in front)
Master Magpie (ch. h., 1905, by Gallinule (no surprise)- Meddlesome, by St. Gatien) - Dam is listed as a bay, sire a chestnut - Fairly wide blaze extends down and covers all of left nostril. Four whites, including right front nearly to knee. 1-E, 2-E, 3-E, 4-E
Trendennis (ch.h., 1898, by Kendal 16 - St. Marguerite, by Hermit) - Both sire and dam are listed chestnuts - Fairly wide blaze extends through left nostril to mouth (none on lip that I can see). 1-C, 3-E, 4-E
Neil Gow (ch.h., 1907, by Marco - Chelandry, by Goldfinch) - Sire is chestnut, dam bay - Blaze face, narrow at top but very wide from middle -bottom, covers most of left nostril. 1-C, 2-E, 3-E, 4-E. He has a small white spot up near his withers, as do so many from that time..but I'm guessing that, like most, it's a saddle mark
Mintagon (ch.h., 1901, by Martagon - Mimi, by Barcaldine) - Sire and dam are listed bays - Medium blaze, extends down between nostrils. 1-E, 3-E, 4-E. Both hind leg markings are quite high on cannon bones
Each photo is from the left side, so I might be missing some markings on right sides.
-
StayOutFront
- Maiden Special Weight
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- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:29 pm
Jorge,
That is so interesting about Fels!!! This color study is fascinating, and I am so glad you have this interest (it helps pique my interest, too).
Here are a few others, some of which I'm sure you already know well. Where the dam/sire/DOB are listed, I've included them:
Tanya (ch.f. 1902, by *Meddler) - 1905 Belmont Stakes winner. Chestnut, at least three very nice, high white stockings nearly including knee/to hock. (left front - 1 - is completely obscured in photo). 2-E, 3-E, 4-E. Unless there is a printing error, she also has a few small white spots down under her belly up by her right front leg.
Hamburg (1895, by Hanover - Lady Reel, by Fellowcraft) - Not as flashy as Tanya, but bright. Blaze face and two hind stockings - 3-E, 4-E.
There's no photo of Hanover in this book, but I seem to recall him having at least a couple of white stockings and a blaze.
Hastings (1893) - The photo I have isn't good at all, but it's obvious he at least has a wide blaze that seems to extend down over his right nostril, at least. Can't tell about legs, but he either has hind stockings or high white leg wraps in my photo. Another photo would help.
*St. Blaise - Not as flashy as these others, but as he was a stallion he might be of interest. Blaze, and 1-E, 3-E (fairly high), 4-C. Not sure of his year of birth/info, but he was sold in 1891 for $100,000. Obviously, he was already very good by that point.
Potomac (1888, by *St. Blaise - Susquehanna) - Blaze, becomes larger toward bottom and extends through nostril. 1-E (a small bit might go up into knee), 3-E, 4-E (quite high on both)
I know you're primarily interested in pre-1950, but here are a few more modern horses with extra white:
Royal Orbit (1956 ch.c., by Royal Charger - Admirals Belle, by War Admiral) - Medium blaze, 1-E, 2-E, 3-E (higher than others)
Psyche's First (1957, ch. by Indian Hemp - Dawns Delight) - His leg markings aren't overly bright - 1-D, 3-D (in both cases, the fetlock is completely covered, but the marking doesn't go much higher). His face marking seems unusually large, though. A blaze is obvious extending a bit down over the side of his face and his lip (at least right side) is fully white.
Atoll (1956) - I can't see this horse's leg markings, but his face has a wide blaze extending down to his lip. It might be of interest to find a full-body shot that shows his leg markings.
Not sure if Sword Dancer was flashy enough for your interest (?).
That is so interesting about Fels!!! This color study is fascinating, and I am so glad you have this interest (it helps pique my interest, too).
Here are a few others, some of which I'm sure you already know well. Where the dam/sire/DOB are listed, I've included them:
Tanya (ch.f. 1902, by *Meddler) - 1905 Belmont Stakes winner. Chestnut, at least three very nice, high white stockings nearly including knee/to hock. (left front - 1 - is completely obscured in photo). 2-E, 3-E, 4-E. Unless there is a printing error, she also has a few small white spots down under her belly up by her right front leg.
Hamburg (1895, by Hanover - Lady Reel, by Fellowcraft) - Not as flashy as Tanya, but bright. Blaze face and two hind stockings - 3-E, 4-E.
There's no photo of Hanover in this book, but I seem to recall him having at least a couple of white stockings and a blaze.
Hastings (1893) - The photo I have isn't good at all, but it's obvious he at least has a wide blaze that seems to extend down over his right nostril, at least. Can't tell about legs, but he either has hind stockings or high white leg wraps in my photo. Another photo would help.
*St. Blaise - Not as flashy as these others, but as he was a stallion he might be of interest. Blaze, and 1-E, 3-E (fairly high), 4-C. Not sure of his year of birth/info, but he was sold in 1891 for $100,000. Obviously, he was already very good by that point.
Potomac (1888, by *St. Blaise - Susquehanna) - Blaze, becomes larger toward bottom and extends through nostril. 1-E (a small bit might go up into knee), 3-E, 4-E (quite high on both)
I know you're primarily interested in pre-1950, but here are a few more modern horses with extra white:
Royal Orbit (1956 ch.c., by Royal Charger - Admirals Belle, by War Admiral) - Medium blaze, 1-E, 2-E, 3-E (higher than others)
Psyche's First (1957, ch. by Indian Hemp - Dawns Delight) - His leg markings aren't overly bright - 1-D, 3-D (in both cases, the fetlock is completely covered, but the marking doesn't go much higher). His face marking seems unusually large, though. A blaze is obvious extending a bit down over the side of his face and his lip (at least right side) is fully white.
Atoll (1956) - I can't see this horse's leg markings, but his face has a wide blaze extending down to his lip. It might be of interest to find a full-body shot that shows his leg markings.
Not sure if Sword Dancer was flashy enough for your interest (?).
Two very colorful horses
These two ran at Suffolk Downs in the fall 2012:
Tinto, Ch G 2006 by Captain Red-Angel Shark, by Langfuhr
http://www.pedigreequery.com/tinto10
Mona's Thunder Ch G 2008 by Lightnin N Thunder-Kerry Colleen, by Killarney Road
No photo but he has stockings over the knees and a wide bald face.
Tinto, Ch G 2006 by Captain Red-Angel Shark, by Langfuhr
http://www.pedigreequery.com/tinto10
Mona's Thunder Ch G 2008 by Lightnin N Thunder-Kerry Colleen, by Killarney Road
No photo but he has stockings over the knees and a wide bald face.
Some notes on loudly marked old time horses and where their color may have come from:
This is just an impression, but it seems that a notable number of pre-1950 TBs with a "French connection" had loud white markings. This might have been related to horses native to France or it might have been the result of the ban on racing in New York starting around 1906-1907 because some American breeders, most notably, Henry Payne Whitney, the owner of Broomstick, moved their breeding farms to France in response. This introduced some top American bloodlines into French TBs, including a good amount of Broomstick and Hamburg/Hanover.
The loud colored 1929 filly Top Flight, champion at 2 and 3, was by a French stallion with Hamburg as a BMS and out of a mare whose third dam was by Broomstick. (http://www.pedigreequery.com/top+flight).
- Hamburg, the sire of Hanover, had a blaze and 2 front stockings.
Hanover had a blaze and 2 rear stockings.
Broomstick and his sire Ben Brush appear to have little, if any white, but Broomstick and his line regularly threw blazes and stockings:
- Sweeper by Broomstick
Upset by Whiskbroom II (a Broomstick son with very little color)
Golden Broom by Sweeper
This is just an impression, but it seems that a notable number of pre-1950 TBs with a "French connection" had loud white markings. This might have been related to horses native to France or it might have been the result of the ban on racing in New York starting around 1906-1907 because some American breeders, most notably, Henry Payne Whitney, the owner of Broomstick, moved their breeding farms to France in response. This introduced some top American bloodlines into French TBs, including a good amount of Broomstick and Hamburg/Hanover.
The loud colored 1929 filly Top Flight, champion at 2 and 3, was by a French stallion with Hamburg as a BMS and out of a mare whose third dam was by Broomstick. (http://www.pedigreequery.com/top+flight).
"you cannot be brilliant if you cannot run" -- bdw0617
Grey Lag, HOY in 1921, looks to be a chestnut sabino with blaze, two stockings, and belly spots: http://www.pedigreequery.com/grey+lag
"you cannot be brilliant if you cannot run" -- bdw0617
Jorge wrote:I would really appreciate a helping hand on this one. LOTOWHITE (1947) was a white marked equine who participated in the 1950 Kentucky Derby.
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Blessings,
Hi Jorge,
This is Lotowhite a far back 2nd to Oil Capital in the 1950 Flamingo Stakes. He's on the rail. TJ
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=1950+fla ... 5,s:0,i:89
