What A Song injured

[wilf]

I have a horse with two wall eyes , he ran 171 times , winning 33, he was just a bit of a character thats all. I know what you mean Sysonby however body language is everything with the running horse as you will testify . Sore horses act in one of several ways and mere rogues will do an entirely different thing. I feel that the 2yr old in training sales-to-the-races routine can be a tough time for these babies considering that its the big sale that the pinhookers are looking for , sometimes at any cost to the animal. Come raceday they have the ability but it has been such hard road getting there that they are fried and maybe needing a rest whereas the new owners are looking for a return on their investment. Its a prickly situation fraught with frustration and disappointment and in the end there are few winners.

[Sysonby]

Thanks LSB. I've seen the horse in person a few times and I'm sure I had seen that. Incidentally, I'm not going to second guess his equipment but I did notice how professional this horse was at such a young age. In the Best Pal, he gave position to the front runner and then retook it in the stretch. Not at all a horse who was difficult in any of his races.

[wilf]

Thanks L S B for the photo but I do urge you to take a good look at the win photo and give me your opinion remembering of course that this horse broke down irretrievebly . Its tough to actually break down a horse beyond repair, they have been evolving for many thousands of years and even in the strange pastime of t-bred racing not that many do considering the number of participants.

[Sysonby]

But isn't that a form of redboarding wilf? Two posts ago, his walleye was painted by you as a look of "horror" when it is clear from LSB's photo that it is just a birth defect.

It's a shame that the horse broke down. I've probably been his biggest champion on here when so many were pooh poohing his breeding and questioning the Lewis' sanity for buying him. I just saw a nice horse.

Breakdowns are a sad business. But what can be even sadder is the blame game. I hope you never train a horse only to have your conditioning second guessed by people based on a single still photograph. Everyone has breakdowns..unfortunately.

[BJ]

O.K. Guys heres my 5 cents worth and I will not waste time............. a picture is worth a thousand words and I humbly suggest that everyone take a look at the photo of What A Song that is shown on the Daily Racing Form page. Take a good look.......... as a trainer and owner of thoroughbreds I will tell you what I see. Here is a horse winning a stake race .........he is wearing blinkers with an outside scoop which is usually used on older horses that try to bear outwards probably because they have an old physical problem and they want to get off the track and not really take part anymore. Look further and you will see the rider has the bit pulled through the poor beasts mouth as he tries to steer him towards the wire........... and finally check the horror in the horses left eye as he approaches the finish. As Bob Dylan once wrote" You dont need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows". This horse had had enough and his problems were obviously major but nobody cried a halt to this farce. It happens all too often and it makes me sick!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the honesty. A quality of a true horseman!

[Oldschool65]

Ive been associated in the past with one filly that had to where those type blinkers you mention, which by the way, are called extended blinkers.

She was a late runner who use to bear out badly coming off the final turn. They seemed to somewhat help her. I can tell you though, she had no physical problems.

The problem with Lukas and Baffert is how they train thoroughbreds, which are much more fragile creatures compared to the more rugged, stout, compact quarterhorse breed.

Lukas and Baffert both trains TBs like they use to train QHs and the TB breed just cannot stand up to that type of abuse.

Of course theres an advantage to that type of training. You can get young horses ready much quicker then their competition. Most sensiable trainers wont train young horses that aggressive. So Lukas and Baffert trainees have a huge advantage for the first year or so over most other competitors.
The dis-advantage to the aggressive training style of younger horses is, many cant stand up to the constant pound, pound, pound and it finally destroys them.

Its takes a total disregard of putting the horses health/safety first to train an animal this way. Lukas and Baffert have put glory/fame/money first, the well being of the horse, second.

Neither of them i would trust training a cockroach and both should be charged with crimes against the equine breed.

[rascal]

What a sad thing. He was only a baby.

[jellac]

The problem with Lukas and Baffert is how they train thoroughbreds, which are much more fragile creatures compared to the more rugged, stout, compact quarterhorse breed.

Lukas and Baffert both trains TBs like they use to train QHs and the TB breed just cannot stand up to that type of abuse.

Of course theres an advantage to that type of training. You can get young horses ready much quicker then their competition. Most sensiable trainers wont train young horses that aggressive. So Lukas and Baffert trainees have a huge advantage for the first year or so over most other competitors.
The dis-advantage to the aggressive training style of younger horses is, many cant stand up to the constant pound, pound, pound and it finally destroys them.

As an owner I have a trainer who has trained both thoroughbreds and quarterhorses for me now and he brings a lot of experience with training/winning with both breeds. Plus this is the fifith, maybe sixth trainer I've worked with trying to race 3 TBs and 2 QHs over the last 10 years so at this point I've had a chance to see what more than one trainer with more than one horse is doing - at the track, on the farm and as far as placement in races, prescribing down time at the farm to freshen a horse, etc.

What you describe is the opposite of how the two breeds are trained - from what I've seen.

True the QHs - those not of Stakes (Futurity/Derby) quality and the promising 2YO/3YO Maidens - get raced more frequently but they do not get taken to the track almost daily for a two mile jog/gallop instead often being handwalked or put on the walkring in lieu of exercise on the track. It is the thoroughbred that takes more of a day to day "pounding" in terms of miles put in at jog, gallop or working speeds.

Furthermore Quarter horses, while their racing is very intense and very fast - do not reach the same level of exertion in terms of the metabolism that occurs in their muscles/bodies that the thoroughbreds undergo in training and racing over the longer distances. AS a result they have much quicker recovery times after a race. A sprint of the distances run by the Quarter horse is entirely aerobic. There is no requirement for the QH's body to have to draw upon stored reserves (as opposed to utilizing readily available fuel in the muscles which only requires oxygen to be utilized) and convert or break down that stored energy into a form more readily consumed as fuel by tiring muscles. It is this latter which occurs in every race of thoroughbreds at JCA recognized races. To reach that point of energy output requires a thoroughbred to exert itsself over a sufficient distance of ground/length of time to have used up all it's readily available stores of energy in it's muscles and now the phsyiology of it's exertions must change if it is to sustain it's speed over more ground. Two miles of exercising - even at a jog trot are not uncommon on a 5-6 day a week schedule for the thoroughbred being conditioned. Many thoroughbreds have a difficult time - mentally - NOT getting that time out of their stalls and the chance to stretch their legs whether they are ponied about the track, jogged, lightly cantered or worked in company at or nearly at race speeds while some of the most intense QHs seem quite content to spend a day in or two in their stall before getting anxious to get out.

So in contrast to your statement about two top thoroughbred trainers that you accuse of training their charges like they were QHs in my experience it is the thoroughbred that is taking the "pounding" in terms of the length of duration, frequency and intensity of their exercise/conditioning.

It is only in terms of actual racing that the Tbs seem to get a break as compared with many of the QHs. The real "workhorses" among TBs are usually given at least 3 weeks minimum before being raced back....the QHs of that capability/level are often raced back every 2 weeks but with much less strenuous conditioning beforehand. I'm talking about the generally fit claimers that fill most races at every track whether Tb or QH meet. I've not seen the Futurity/Derby/Stakes capable QHs or Stakes calibre TBs raced to nearly the extent in terms of frequency that the those racing at the claiming levels are.

I do see a great deal more time spent training QHs at the gate and less time spent "working" down the lane or jogging around the track than the Thoroughbreds, after all the start is where many/most QH races are lost, while it is only the beginning of a Thoroughbreds much longer run and not so much a part of the strategy overall.

There are some differences in the overall conformation of the majority of QH as compared to that of most of the TBs and there are also generally some temperment differences between the two breeds. That being said, I would guess that there are just as many - %-wise (and more in sheer numbers) - of late yearling and early 2YOs of the QH breed being pushed hard to get ready for and qualify for the Futurities as there are late yearling and early 2YOs of the TB breed being pushed for 2YO In Training sales or testing on the track as to their potential for the classics in 2YO stakes. To nominate your QH for some of the bigger Futurities you must start paying into the race when the QH is just a foal, in some cases in utero, so there are intense economic pressures for the breeders/owners and their trainers of the QH breed as there are for the TB breed. I would also add that some of the truly outstanding historical members of the TB world - Mon O'War, Native Dancer, to name just two "giants" of the breed's lore endured and excelled as 2YOs with intense stakes level race campaigns AND came back to excell as 3YOs at the top of their game...the focus of TB racing has been there for some time. I think one difference I do see is that in the not too distant past only a handful of young horses were thought such standouts from their brothers/sisters of the same crop to be pushed towards these intense early tests with an eye to the classics. Today it seems, almost everyone wants to try their horse early to see if - maybe, just maybe - they've got "lightening in a jar" on the end of their lead rope. Lukas and Baffert have no lock on this and they do what they do at the owner's request. They happen to get more top quality 2YOs to try and bring along that injury prone trail because of their success, just as many another "classics" trainer does: heck the owners send them to the sales with an open checkbook and the mandate of trying to buy a horse that can take them to an owner's box at the spring classics!