Im only 19 and a full time student and have a broodmare band of 8. I manage some how!!!!
You are all right though, it does take a lot of money, this business.
How to get into the breeding biz small scale???
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
Getting into the business on a small scale
Getting into the business on a small scale takes time money and patience. Find a horse with ability that may not show on paper as far as black type. Look at the competition a mare ran against because there are some good allowance running mares that may not have placed in stakes. If you do your research you can come across some nice mares. My first Thoroughbred mare that I bought was very reasonable and she is by El Prado who stands for $125,000. She was not a good runner but she has nice conformation. I bought her in foal which is probably the most economical way to get in the business because mare care, boarding, and stud fees can be quite expensive and not to mention shipping. I bought another mare by Siphon and she ran in New York state bred allowance races at Aqueduct and Belmont. She does not have the conformation my El Prado mare has but she was a better race mare by far. Both are unproven mares so it is like gambling because I do not know what kind of producers I have as far as being successful or unsuccessful broodmares. It is very expensive to get a horse to the races. Another way to go is to claim a well bred mare who has back class and you can have fun racing her and then retiring her to the broodmare shed. I would look for mares by good broodmare sires from the Fappiano Bloodlines like Quiet American and Cryptoclearance. I would also consider mares from the Dixieland Band bloodlines like Dixie Union, Citidancer, Dixie Brass, and so on. I would also consider mares by Eastern Echo, Saratoga Six,Carson City, and so on. Alydar is a very useful broodmare line as well as Mr. Prospector bloodlines. If you want to take chances consider broodmare sires who are out of great mares like Weekend Surprise, Glorious Song, Too Bald, Toussaud, Silvery Swan, Tree of Knowledge, Miesque, and so on. Good luck in whatever you do.
Keith
Keith
summerhorse, it sounds to me as though you've thought things through pretty thoroughly. My best advice to someone who wants to get started is come to Kentucky and haunt the sales. Watch everything. Read the books obsessively. Learn which families appeal to you and which don't--then learn which of those appeal to the market and which don't.
Look at mares in all price ranges. Unless your budget is really low, you'd be surprised how many times something interesting might tumble into your price range. Look for mares that might be a little older (everyone now wants young, young, young.) You can get an older mare that has already produced black type more cheaply than a young one who has yet to produce a thing.
Use your head, make a business plan, then buy with your heart. Life's too short to have horses you aren't in love with.
Look at mares in all price ranges. Unless your budget is really low, you'd be surprised how many times something interesting might tumble into your price range. Look for mares that might be a little older (everyone now wants young, young, young.) You can get an older mare that has already produced black type more cheaply than a young one who has yet to produce a thing.
Use your head, make a business plan, then buy with your heart. Life's too short to have horses you aren't in love with.
-
summerhorse
- Breeder's Cup Winner
- Posts: 2178
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:40 am
- Location: Panama City, FL
- Contact:
Oh yes even though I'd be in it for fun I'd still run it as a business. I just wouldn't plan on getting rich off it! But I think if you make smart decisions, take good care of your horses, USUALLY you can break even at least.
I know I've been reading the sales results from the KY and FL sales and I've seen some NICE looking horses (on paper) go through really cheap because they weren't "fashionable" BUT they were runners and/or solid running lines. I'm amazed at the quality people pass up for fashion. Or the money they will pay for fashion even when the stats don't back it up!
As far as what state to start in I guess that depends on where you live and if you want to move. If you are on a budget (even $3 million is not a huge budget in TB land) you really need to have your own farm, do most of your own work (I WOULD be hiring ye olde stall cleaner though, LOL THOSE days are through for me whether one horse or 20) and be within driving distance but not IN prime horse land territory. You can buy twice the land at much less cost by driving an hour or two. And feed, hay, vets, transport, all that stuff costs much less in Panama City than say Ocala or Lexington. WAY less.
WAAAAAAAAAAY less.
I think if you want to get into claiming you really need to spend time at the track so you can see the horses and at least check out their conformation. If you just want to race that is a good way to get your feet wet if you are careful and have a good trainer (with a good eye) and your trainer is honest. With you at least.
I don't really care to deal with claiming horses simply because I do get too attached. And THOSE would be the ones I'd lose to someone else next out! And if (when?) they broke down, oh my... If I am going to have a bunch of cripples living out their lives at my farm I'd just as soon they be the well bred ones I created. LOL. But I'd still do a lot of rescue (for ADOPTION though...)
Leasing is a great way to get new bloodlines in without laying out a full purchase price or worrying about recouping the purchase price. Foal sharing is too but then you risk not getting a foal *unless otherwise stated* if the mare doesn't deliver a live foal the next year. (Like with Secretariat's foal share when only 3 foals were available, luckily for The Meadow they got the right one!).
I know I've been reading the sales results from the KY and FL sales and I've seen some NICE looking horses (on paper) go through really cheap because they weren't "fashionable" BUT they were runners and/or solid running lines. I'm amazed at the quality people pass up for fashion. Or the money they will pay for fashion even when the stats don't back it up!
As far as what state to start in I guess that depends on where you live and if you want to move. If you are on a budget (even $3 million is not a huge budget in TB land) you really need to have your own farm, do most of your own work (I WOULD be hiring ye olde stall cleaner though, LOL THOSE days are through for me whether one horse or 20) and be within driving distance but not IN prime horse land territory. You can buy twice the land at much less cost by driving an hour or two. And feed, hay, vets, transport, all that stuff costs much less in Panama City than say Ocala or Lexington. WAY less.
WAAAAAAAAAAY less.
I think if you want to get into claiming you really need to spend time at the track so you can see the horses and at least check out their conformation. If you just want to race that is a good way to get your feet wet if you are careful and have a good trainer (with a good eye) and your trainer is honest. With you at least.
I don't really care to deal with claiming horses simply because I do get too attached. And THOSE would be the ones I'd lose to someone else next out! And if (when?) they broke down, oh my... If I am going to have a bunch of cripples living out their lives at my farm I'd just as soon they be the well bred ones I created. LOL. But I'd still do a lot of rescue (for ADOPTION though...)
Leasing is a great way to get new bloodlines in without laying out a full purchase price or worrying about recouping the purchase price. Foal sharing is too but then you risk not getting a foal *unless otherwise stated* if the mare doesn't deliver a live foal the next year. (Like with Secretariat's foal share when only 3 foals were available, luckily for The Meadow they got the right one!).
Every mighty oak was once an acorn that stood its ground.
Summerhorse,
I am with you on the fashionable side of things. I'd rather scour catalogs looking for a decent dam side and forget the sire. We have a 2yo filly we bought for 5500euro's as a yearling in Feb 05. She is by Docksider out of Benguela by Little Current. This makes her a 3/4 sister to Catumbella (Diesis) who is the dam of Honor In War. She is a late maturer and is actually out in the field to do more growing after being in training. She will go back in to training in March. We like to do these things in Europe, I know it would seem crazy to do that in the states. Anyhow, she will join our broodmare herd in a couple of years. I am confident she will win a race or two and possibly be stakes placed. Nobody would touch her at the sale because daddy is Docksider and after his first crop people went off him. It's a very strong pedigree and glad we got her.
When buying/leasing mares I just want the dam to be good and something that looks to have a future. I am not as critical of the stallion. I am probably wrong in this, but with my limited funds I have to get the best I can and mare lines have to be my priority. Maybe one day I can get the good/fashionable sire to go with a good dam. I only have 2 mares one by Fraam, she won 4 races and is a full sister to a black- type horse, and her 3 year old brother won today. Also have a French Deputy mare who is a winner and she has a Montjeu half-sister to run this year. Her mare is very young so we are hoping for the best, as in all breeding it's a gamble. Both mares are winners from winning families with black-type close up. Each of these mares cost me less than 5,000 euro too, but I bought privately from racing syndicates that didn't breed and didn't want to wait around for a sale so this helped. They could be crap, but I have tried to start with good basics and only want to improve breeding if I can.
teb
I am with you on the fashionable side of things. I'd rather scour catalogs looking for a decent dam side and forget the sire. We have a 2yo filly we bought for 5500euro's as a yearling in Feb 05. She is by Docksider out of Benguela by Little Current. This makes her a 3/4 sister to Catumbella (Diesis) who is the dam of Honor In War. She is a late maturer and is actually out in the field to do more growing after being in training. She will go back in to training in March. We like to do these things in Europe, I know it would seem crazy to do that in the states. Anyhow, she will join our broodmare herd in a couple of years. I am confident she will win a race or two and possibly be stakes placed. Nobody would touch her at the sale because daddy is Docksider and after his first crop people went off him. It's a very strong pedigree and glad we got her.
When buying/leasing mares I just want the dam to be good and something that looks to have a future. I am not as critical of the stallion. I am probably wrong in this, but with my limited funds I have to get the best I can and mare lines have to be my priority. Maybe one day I can get the good/fashionable sire to go with a good dam. I only have 2 mares one by Fraam, she won 4 races and is a full sister to a black- type horse, and her 3 year old brother won today. Also have a French Deputy mare who is a winner and she has a Montjeu half-sister to run this year. Her mare is very young so we are hoping for the best, as in all breeding it's a gamble. Both mares are winners from winning families with black-type close up. Each of these mares cost me less than 5,000 euro too, but I bought privately from racing syndicates that didn't breed and didn't want to wait around for a sale so this helped. They could be crap, but I have tried to start with good basics and only want to improve breeding if I can.
teb
-
summerhorse
- Breeder's Cup Winner
- Posts: 2178
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:40 am
- Location: Panama City, FL
- Contact:
Yeah I'm not much into 2 yo racing either. I'd rather win bigger, longer races later and longer than some 2yo ones and have them go off at 3. I just don't like pushing babies. And I want my horses, fast or slow, to retire sound.
A lot of the stallions I like are not "fashionable' but they are good or show excellent promise if new. And a lot of the "fashionable" ones I look at their stats and go huh? As long as the stallion is well bred and a good sire of runners (or noted as a broodmare sire) I really want the bottom line to be the primary consideration. IMO the mares seem to breed more to their bottom line than the top! That could just be a coincidence of the ones I looked at though...
A lot of the stallions I like are not "fashionable' but they are good or show excellent promise if new. And a lot of the "fashionable" ones I look at their stats and go huh? As long as the stallion is well bred and a good sire of runners (or noted as a broodmare sire) I really want the bottom line to be the primary consideration. IMO the mares seem to breed more to their bottom line than the top! That could just be a coincidence of the ones I looked at though...
Every mighty oak was once an acorn that stood its ground.
-
klbash2000
- Yearling
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:41 am
- Location: central KY
I'm with you on owning the land. It's paying mare care that's the KILLER.
summerhorse wrote:Oh yes even though I'd be in it for fun I'd still run it as a business. I just wouldn't plan on getting rich off it! But I think if you make smart decisions, take good care of your horses, USUALLY you can break even at least.
I know I've been reading the sales results from the KY and FL sales and I've seen some NICE looking horses (on paper) go through really cheap because they weren't "fashionable" BUT they were runners and/or solid running lines. I'm amazed at the quality people pass up for fashion. Or the money they will pay for fashion even when the stats don't back it up!
As far as what state to start in I guess that depends on where you live and if you want to move. If you are on a budget (even $3 million is not a huge budget in TB land) you really need to have your own farm, do most of your own work (I WOULD be hiring ye olde stall cleaner though, LOL THOSE days are through for me whether one horse or 20) and be within driving distance but not IN prime horse land territory. You can buy twice the land at much less cost by driving an hour or two. And feed, hay, vets, transport, all that stuff costs much less in Panama City than say Ocala or Lexington. WAY less.
I think if you want to get into claiming you really need to spend time at the track so you can see the horses and at least check out their conformation. If you just want to race that is a good way to get your feet wet if you are careful and have a good trainer (with a good eye) and your trainer is honest. With you at least.
I don't really care to deal with claiming horses simply because I do get too attached. And THOSE would be the ones I'd lose to someone else next out! And if (when?) they broke down, oh my... If I am going to have a bunch of cripples living out their lives at my farm I'd just as soon they be the well bred ones I created. LOL. But I'd still do a lot of rescue (for ADOPTION though...)
Leasing is a great way to get new bloodlines in without laying out a full purchase price or worrying about recouping the purchase price. Foal sharing is too but then you risk not getting a foal *unless otherwise stated* if the mare doesn't deliver a live foal the next year. (Like with Secretariat's foal share when only 3 foals were available, luckily for The Meadow they got the right one!).
"Animals are such agreeable friends--they ask no questions, they pass no criticisms."
-----George Eliot
-----George Eliot
I agree....I have a partner in on one of my babies, it's a small percentage, but it's the last time I'll do it...It does change people.Sam wrote:Morningside wrote:sam, maybe you should consider leasing a mare?
That's what I plan on doing when I'm finally in position to do so. I've a couple casual racing fan friends that have made noises about going in on a horse together ... I refuse to do that. Money and friendships don't mix well in my experience.