The males Rachel beat this year are a sad, sad lot !!!

[geowarrior]

In the Horse of the Year debate I would probably lean towards Zenyatta. With her running style and the fact that Mike Smith always eased up on her when she hit the front, I don't think that winning margins and speed figures are all that relevant. Her winning margin over Anabaa's Creation in the Hirsch is also not that significant. Mike Smith freely admitted that he had his eye on Life Is Sweet in that race, not realizing that Life Is Sweet was not in good position, and he almost left Zenyatta with too much to do.

The bottom line, though, is that though I love the passion of the debates, I don't really care which one of the two is voted Horse of the Year. These two will both be Hall of Famers and legends, and as one T.V. analyst said 'I know what I saw' and what I saw in Zenyatta's Breeders' Cup Classic was a race that demonstrated true greatness, real partnership between horse and jockey, and a seemingly bottomless well of untapped potential. For others, Rachel's Woodward or her Haskell might have had that effect. Ultimately it is a question of what moved us or which horse struck a chord. We've been fortunate indeed that there have been so many opportunities this year for us to view greatness and to be moved.

[FOS]

hi dray33

... Zenyatta is the new Peppers Pride, only much better. But she's not Rachel Alexandra.

As you know I appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts, opinions, perspectives, insights etc, but what I perceive as your intended insult of Zenyatta surprises me...and seems out of character and unbecoming.

For what it's worth...I view Zenyatta as one of the GREATEST in the history of the breed. Furthermore, I believe that Team Zenyatta handled/managed their magnificent superstar beautifully as evidenced (for starters) by the fact that she is an eight time Grade 1 winner that capped-off year 2008 with a win the Breeders' Cup Ladies' Classic (earning her Eclipse honors); then raced on undefeated in 2009, capping her sensational racing career with an eye-popping jaw-dropping winning performance-for-the-ages in the 2009 Breeders' Cup Classic; PLUS she retires both UNDEFEATED...and sound.

To my way of thinking Zenyatta is beyond spectacular, is without a doubt a thoroughbred for-the-ages...and is in my humble opinion absolutely positively the individual most deserving 2009 Horse Of The Year honors.

Best to ya.

Respectfully

[JimbleBrimble]

Fact:
• Rachel Alexandra gave us eight races on eight different racetracks... beating the boys three times, and destroying the fillies (20 lengths at times).
• Zenyatta, stayed exclusively in Southern California except when she won on dirt at Oaklawn Park (Arkansas).

Fact:
• Both horses were at Churchill Downs during Kentucky Derby week.
• Rachel Alexandra won the Derby-eve Kentucky Oaks for fillies by a record 20 1/4 lengths, Zenyatta scratched from her race because of a muddy track.

Both great. One champion.
Nuff' said.

She may have lost a race in 2008, but how does that factor into Horse of the YEAR honors?

Dude, your opinions have to be a poorly-conceived work of art when you cannot even seem to get your so-called "facts" coordinated with one another, let alone correct. Nice try though.


Next year why not resolve to look in the little booklet that lands on the porch once a week, and when you see the words "Horse Racing"... look beside them for the little number. Then after that you'll want to push the button which says "on", and when the big box lights up, then try to match the number on the little dial to the one you saw in the booklet next to "Horse Racing". Then sit down and pay attention to the part which lit-up.

[Patuxet]

I wonder how much our own personal prejudices are fueling our posturing in this HOY debate?

My aim is to breed a horse with the capacity to win at ten furlongs. Given the determined shrinkage of distance in American racing in the past quarter century, I think it's vitally important to maintain some semblance of stamina in the breed.

So I favor broodmares sired by Belmont-proven horses and I'm generally loath to breed to a stallion which didn't win at ten furlongs and has yet to prove himself as a sire. If I do make an exception then it's only for a horse which won at least one Grade 1 stakes race at the classic American distance or more.

I'm sure that not so deep down my own notion of what constitutes a good horse colors my perception of the horses in this HOY debate. To put a finer point on it, if Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatte were stallions, at this point in their brilliant careers I'd take a chance on Zenyatta and not on Rachel Alexandra.

[geowarrior]

I believe you are right about personal prejudices, Patuxet. Although as I said, I don't care as passionately as some about the outcome of the Horse of the Year debate, my tendency to lean towards Zenyatta probably has a lot to do with the fact that she beat several mile and a quarter horses proven at the highest level over a mile and a quarter.

[dray33]

This is from the Turfwriter for the Lexington-Herald.

Anyone who saw Zenyatta's remarkable triumph in the Breeders' Cup Classic can not deny it was a performance for the ages and one many people now feel deems her worthy of Horse of the Year honors. Before anyone hands her the trophy, however, lets recap what another top female performer had already pulled off this season.

What Rachel Alexandra accomplished in 2009 goes beyond the borders of extraordinary. She ran and won eight times this year over seven different tracks. She beat males three, count 'em, three times including the remarkable feat of taking down older males in the Woodward. By the time Zenyatta even began her five-race campaign in late May Rachel Alexandra had already scored four graded stakes wins including her 20 1/4 length romp in the Kentucky Oaks and her one-length triumph in the Preakness two weeks later which, by the way, came after she went through the stress of switching barns and being in a completely new environment only days before what was then the biggest race of her life.

Some have tried to argue that for all of Rachel Alexandra's triumphs this year, she really didn't beat much. Well, prior to her Breeders' Cup triumph, Zenyatta had defeated a grand total of two Grade I winners this year (Life Is Sweet and Cocoa Beach).

Rachel Alexandra, by comparison, had defeated the Kentucky Derby winner in Mine That Bird, was six lengths in front of the Belmont, Travers, and Jockey Club Gold Cup winner Summer Bird, beat the Stephen Foster winner (Macho Again), the Whitney winner (Bullsbay), a UAE Triple Crown winner (Asiatic Boy) as well as the Santa Anita Derby winner (Pioneerof the Nile) and a horse who has gone on to become a multiple Grade I winner on the turf (Take the Points). And that?s just the boys. Gabby's Golden Gal, the filly Rachel Alexandra crushed when she went by her like a rocket in the Kentucky Oaks, came back to win the Grade I Acorn on the Belmont Stakes undercard.

As solid as the Breeders' Cup Classic field was, it wasn't terribly more challenging than anything Rachel Alexandra had already faced. Summer Bird and Mine That Bird were back. There was Einstein, who had gotten beat by Macho Again in the Stephen Foster; Awesome Gem, a solid handicap horse but by no means a monster; Colonel John, making just his fourth start this year and who hadn't won a graded stakes race since the 2008 Travers; Richard?s Kid, again solid, but no world-beater, and Grade II winners Regal Ransom and Girolamo. The only major upgrades were four-time Grade I winner Gio Ponti, who starred on the turf this year, and European invaders Twice Over and Rip Van Winkle. And Quality Road literally melted down before he could even get in the gate.

Also, Rachel Alexandra rattled off all her feats as a 3-year-old filly whereas Zenyatta is an older, stronger 5-year-old mare.

Some will hold the fact Rachel Alexandra did not run in the Breeders? Cup against her, but you can not blame her for the decisions the humans around her make. And considering she had already had a far more rigorous campaign than any of her rivals, you also can?t fault an owner for wanting to give his prized filly a well-deserved break.

This year has presented the racing world with two amazing, once-in-a-lifetime horses in Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta and hopefully, when the ballots come out, we voters will be able to split our votes so that both may be rewarded the Horse of the Year honor they each deserve.

But if push comes to shove and I have to choose, I'm going with the filly who ran more, won more, and beat more. Because as sad as it would be to see Zenyatta not gain a Horse of the Year prize, it would be an absolute travesty if the historic feats Rachel Alexandra accomplished this year were rewarded with anything less than the highest honor.

[FOS]

hi dray33

This is from the Turfwriter for the Lexington-Herald.

Anyone who saw Zenyatta's remarkable triumph in the Breeders' Cup Classic can not deny it was a performance for the ages and one many people now feel deems her worthy of Horse of the Year honors. Before anyone hands her the trophy, however, lets recap what another top female performer had already pulled off this season. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... etc etc etc

If posting an article is your sleight of hand attempt at shifting focus away from what I perceive as an intended insult that you wrote/posted and aimed at Zenyatta, it didn't work (as far as I'm concerned).

On the other hand, if the article was intended to show that a turfwriter has the ability to express an opinion without stooping to insult(s), you made your point .

... Zenyatta is the new Peppers Pride, only much better. But she's not Rachel Alexandra.

As I indicated previously, what I perceive as YOUR intended insult of Zenyatta not only surprises me...but also seems out of character and unbecoming of you . After all, you're dray33.

Thoughts dray33?

Best

Respectfully

[Joltman]

We all conclude that RA and Z are outstanding mares. My vote goes for Zenyatta. Simply, if you win the Breeders Cup Classic and go undefeated during the year, you get the trophy. Kind of like the BCS in football, that follows its formula to pick the ultimate winner. They don't call it the Breeders Cup Championship for nothing. If they don't give it to Z, they do a real disservice to the whole notion of a 'championship' at all - this is a major issue.

Zenyatta had nothing really to prove coming into the year, having one the Ladies Classic in 08 and there is no way a path to the BC 09 would have included a pounding of tough G1s. Now, despite all of her accomplishments these are not good enough - but as for now she is HOY in my book.

Unless, of course someone really made it worthwhile to the owners to settle this thing once and for all - on the track.

jm

[dray33]

FOS come on, we know and respect each other better than this. Breathe. Suddenly, your ire gets yanked when I post a comment which was simply made to respond to the inflammatory topic titled "The males Rachel beat this year are a sad, sad lot !!!"? Begin your questioning there. Focus your inquisitiveness there. Think about the intent, and the subsequent posts before laser-focusing on my comment. Obviously I was avoiding responding to you, and to the original poster. I felt it better to let all that go. But to go to the well twice is really surprising from you.

Whereas he made some remarks about my inaccuracies (there weren't any) and something to do with buttons and mail delivery, which I think had something to do with TV Guide and Television (?), you are over-interpreting my response. When I say "Zenyatta is the new Peppers Pride, only much better", or if I added "Zenyatta is the Rachel Alexandra of California" I mean it, but it does not diminish my love for her one iota. Zenyatta is my type of horse, closers fall right in my wheelhouse. She blew me away with her BC performance. Love her. But what can you do, when discussing this all you hear is "Breeders Cup" and "undefeated" and how lousy Rachel's competition is. THAT is offensive to me, besides defying reality and logic (IMHO). How do you feel about that? Thus, my response, I was simply firing back.

This "undefeated" stuff. Rachel is undefeated as well. Maybe not in '08. But this is '09 Horse of the Year. Maybe it's me. I tend to see perfection in imperfection. I also tend to see the imperfection in perfection. Honestly, I do... I'm an underdog kinda guy. You asked about it, I'll tell you. I'm not drawn to the perfect 24 year-old super-model. I like 'em older. I don't need every hair to be in place, sometimes I like quite the opposite and in sport, I don't exalt those who only care to protect their image, rather I'll take the fighter who takes a shot, and a few blows, gets up and fights on. Emotion over technical. I try not to judge a person when they are on top of the world, I think you tell a lot more about their soul when they are on the ropes. Oh, and I don't like bullies.

Hope you get it now, but if not: I feel that the Zenyatta campaign (and the RA's campaign) we're simply "too managed" to allow them to meet; and being the kind of marketing person that I am I think they squandered away an incalculable opportunity. For the first time in history (I think) the Breeders Cup was held in the same location 2 years in a row (?) (I don't know why). Some will see the decision as sent from heaven, after all... we got to see that performance of a lifetime from Zenyatta. I think it was a mistake. I will forever wonder "what-if". What if they had met? As for the horse of the year, the writer summed it up far better than I could: "...as sad as it would be to see Zenyatta not gain a Horse of the Year prize, it would be an absolute travesty if the historic feats Rachel Alexandra accomplished this year were rewarded with anything less than the highest honor". Travesty is the perfect word, well done Mr. Writer wherever you are.

There you have it. These are my thoughts. I have many, many others which would be fun to discuss over a beer someday.

[Des]

Lets say there was a tie in the voting for HOY and we had to say one reason why Zanyetta or Rachel should not be HOY. What would you say is that reason ?

[dray33]

Lets say there was a tie in the voting for HOY and we had to say one reason why Zanyetta or Rachel should not be HOY. What would you say is that reason ?

In my opinion, if Rachel Alexandra loses the HOY honors it would probably be because the Breeders Cup is fresher in the mind of the judges, west coast bias or some such nonsense, and if Zenyatta loses it's because though brilliant, another horse ran a better campaign during the year. That's about it. I can't think of the words to say why Rachel doesn't deserve to win HOY.

[Fireslam]

I would expect, in my lifetime, that I could see a mare win the Breeders Cup Classic again. I know that I will never, in my lifetime or anyone else's lifetime, see a 3 year old filly win the Preakness, the Haskell, the Woodward, and the Ky. Oaks by 20 lengths. Its such an outrageous resume that you would think only in movies would it happen. But it did; and it will never be done again. That is good enough for me.

[winds]

Let JJ buy another nice 3 yr old filly and you'll see all of that again. I don't know why we don't run more fillies/mares against the colts in this country. Old boys club or something going on..............

winds

[FOS]

hi dray33

FOS come on, we know and respect each other better than this. Breathe. Suddenly, your ire gets yanked when I post a comment which was simply made to respond to the inflammatory topic titled "The males Rachel beat this year are a sad, sad lot !!!"? Begin your questioning there. Focus your inquisitiveness there. Think about the intent, and the subsequent posts before laser-focusing on my comment. Obviously I was avoiding responding to you, and to the original poster. I felt it better to let all that go. But to go to the well twice is really surprising from you.

Whereas he made some remarks about my inaccuracies (there weren't any) and something to do with buttons and mail delivery, which I think had something to do with TV Guide and Television (?), you are over-interpreting my response. When I say "Zenyatta is the new Peppers Pride, only much better", or if I added "Zenyatta is the Rachel Alexandra of California" I mean it, but it does not diminish my love for her one iota. Zenyatta is my type of horse, closers fall right in my wheelhouse. She blew me away with her BC performance. Love her. But what can you do, when discussing this all you hear is "Breeders Cup" and "undefeated" and how lousy Rachel's competition is. THAT is offensive to me, besides defying reality and logic (IMHO). How do you feel about that? Thus, my response, I was simply firing back. ... ... ...

I do much appreciate the courtesy of your detailed response, and now better understand why the swipe.

Clearly the Horse Of The Year discussion is froth with emotion.

That said...who do you think I'd cast my vote for Z Horse Of The Year 2009, if I had one that is .

Thanks and best to ya...

...always.

Respectfully

[dray33]

That I knew... I too could guess who the author of this thread would vote for. Personally, you know who I would vote for. If Zenyatta does win, I would be surprised, but it would be very typical of our sport.