Clearing The Air

General on-topic discussion.

Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster

WARHORSE28
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Postby WARHORSE28 » Thu May 29, 2008 12:06 pm

pfrsue wrote:While I understand that there is a difference between attacking a person and attacking a statement, I can’t help but think that the line between the two is an extremely thin one; particularly when it’s phrased in a way that could be construed as hostile. Saying, “I disagree with you and here’s why…” carries a much more respectful tone than saying, “What you said is probably the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard”.

By the same token, in my experience, I think a rational, reasoned approach lends more credibility to a point of view than a tone that dismisses someone else’s opinion out of hand.

It’s a lightly moderated forum, which does imply that thin-skins are not necessarily going to do well, but when the majority of posters are adults, slinging insults--even insults directed at ideas and not personalities--strikes me as unnecessary.

Oh, and for the record: Aquarius/non-Zoloft. :wink:


Thank you for saying it better than I did.

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Roguelet
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Postby Roguelet » Thu May 29, 2008 12:49 pm

pfrsue wrote:Saying, “I disagree with you and here’s why…” carries a much more respectful tone than saying, “What you said is probably the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard”.

I think a rational, reasoned approach lends more credibility to a point of view than a tone that dismisses someone else’s opinion out of hand.


I won't disagree with that statement on the level of a personal opinion. In fact, many here feel the same exact way.

However, there are also others who actually prefer to read the no-nonsense, no-pussy-footin'-around, colorful tone and personality method of expressing one's opinion, and have said so several times.

To each his own... it takes all kinds... variety is the spice of life.

It really all goes back to what people want this forum to be. If people still want the same thing that they have wanted since it was created, which is to allow people to express themselves freely, then that will apply to everyone. It is not fair to say, "I want freedom of expression for everyone except the people who express themselves in a way that I don't appreciate/feel comfortable with/agree with, etc."

Unfortunately, I know that when this comes up, the issue for the loudest complainers is really not the method of expression... it is about one clique's dislike of one person. The people screaming the loudest about this time and time again (this certainly does not include everyone stating their opinions here, but these people know who they are) have often used the very same language and tone and attacks themselves! They have used this "method of expression" against others themselves, publicly and privately, time and time again, yet they are the quickest to cry foul when it comes from someone that they do not like.

I am well aware that there really are people who can become truly offended or prefer not to read certain language, etc... but those people do not turn around and use the same method on others. It is the first group of people who, in my eyes, really don't have a lot of credibility in this argument because they've shown their hypocrasy on the issue. If you have issue with a certain tone or language, I respect that; what I don't respect is when you PRETEND to have issue with something to satisfy a personal agenda. Keep in mind I see a lot more from many posters than what is publicly displayed... I know who is feeding me crap and who has a genuine concern. Those who have a genuine concern, I would like to hear your thoughts... perhaps in a new poll to compare with the one I posted earlier in this thread.

Folks, it just simply doesn't work both ways. Either we allow everyone to express themselves as they wish and abandon the vendettas against individuals; or everyone, across the board, has to conform to a "kinder, gentler" forum tone.

People keep crying out about favoritism; well here's a prime example. It's good for all or none, not just the ones that fall in line with your specific personal comfort level or those who are your buddes.

Please Know This: I can not just ban people that I don't like. Honestly, that would be great for me, but I CAN'T DO THAT. Trust me, if I could, several people would not be here. If I can't even ban those who I don't want around, being the person who has to take all the personal attacks from those people when things don't go their way, what makes anyone else think that they can tell me who to get rid of? Just because you don't like someone is NOT reason for me to get rid of them.

Now, if the majority agrees that the entire tone of this forum and it's current allowances should be changed, and new rules are formed, people will be forced to abide by those rules. Until then, this forum is what it is and honestly people need to accept that, get together and constructively make adjustments as an entire membership, or move on.
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Crystal
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Postby Crystal » Thu May 29, 2008 1:27 pm

Rog, you have given me a warning before which made me think twice about something I wrote before I posted it. I am greatful it was just a warning, and not "That's It You're Out!"..

What keeps me coming back many times a day is the variety of opinion, expression, and of all personal experiences. Especially when it comes to horse care. While we are not in a formal education environment, I still learn more from other people on the forum then I ever would out of book. Ya'll are great and I have made a TON of great friends from all over the world!!! In fact I'm going to see a few of them in about a month in Saratoga!!!

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Roguelet
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Postby Roguelet » Thu May 29, 2008 1:42 pm

Crystal wrote:Rog, you have given me a warning before which made me think twice about something I wrote before I posted it. I am greatful it was just a warning, and not "That's It You're Out!"..


I have to admit to having no recollection of what that would have been about. :oops:

It takes a lot, and I mean A LOT, before someone gets a "That's It You're Out," typically about 800 private warnings and a ton of public ones... usually a time-out or two, a temp. deactivation... it just is not something EVER taken lightly. Honestly, off the top of my head in about 5 years I can only think of 3 true bans. Obviously, you have never come anywhere close to that point since I don't even recall the situation that warranted a warning! :wink:
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Crystal
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Postby Crystal » Thu May 29, 2008 1:54 pm

me and my big mouth...

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Heidilady
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Postby Heidilady » Thu May 29, 2008 2:13 pm

Roguelet wrote:Please Know This: I can not just ban people that I don't like. Honestly, that would be great for me, but I CAN'T DO THAT. Trust me, if I could, several people would not be here.


:lol: Hmm. That's so loaded. I imagine many a person reading it is gonna go 'hey wait a minute...you don't think Rogue meant...but I'm nice I really am...' Heh.

I almost fired off a PM just from that first post then I figured you might've already posted so I started scrolling, then there it was, a fire fight. Rather entertaining for those of us not involved in the flame war although I'm sure not so much for you. Sometimes I just don't understand why people do the things they do. You could probably write a book. You know there's a Harry Potter site, MuggleNet, that had and probably still has a Wall of Shame. It's pretty hilarious. They figure if you're dumb enough to put that email together, it ought to be posted for everyone to enjoy. Given the issues some people have with Harry Potter and witches, some emails are pretty "special" so to speak.

Oh and while we're doing a roll call of sorts, non-Zoloft/Gemini here.
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Tesio
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Postby Tesio » Thu May 29, 2008 4:02 pm

I am a newer participant in this forum. I do not overload the threads with nonsensical BS simply to occupy my time. I seldom find myself posting comments. I do "peruse" the threads to hear the opinions of people involved in the sport I love. Every so often I have found myself in a somewhat "heated" debate when opinions clash.

I have read thru this entire thread and find it quite entertaining. My opinion is that there are people who certainly push the envelope once in awhile when in a heated debate. However, I believe in the policy that if one feels strong enough in his/her opinions to post said opinion in this forum, he/she should be willing to accept differing opinions. For someone to get all "up in arms" about others who disagree is completely wasted energy. Furthermore, if another poster begins to get "aggressive", I find the best anecdote is to simply ignore the response.

I believe that moderating a forum such as this is a thankless and tedious task. I do not know Roguelet at all, but I'm sure he/she gets fed up with baby-sitting certain individuals. We should all be able to monitor ourselves.

Simply my humble opinion and in no meant to be an attack on anyone.

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Tucumcari
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Postby Tucumcari » Thu May 29, 2008 5:01 pm

Skipitgirl wrote:I love my Zoloft.......... :lol:


Soma!
And it's tough to communicate tone when one is soley typing. I've said it before and will say it again... I do not envy Rogue the job she has.
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jagger
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Rogue

Postby jagger » Thu May 29, 2008 5:17 pm

Question for Rogue. If a forum member is quarantined or in a "time out", what exactly does this mean? Cannot participate on the forums I suspect. Cannot vote on polls. Can still get the site? Can read the various forums? Can be PM'd? Cannot use search or x-factor?

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Postby majxmom » Thu May 29, 2008 5:27 pm

WARHORSE28 wrote: I only came here to talk about horses, nothing more.


Actually, one of the first things I appreciated about this forum was how most of the time, people were civil and you could understand their English. Sure, we've had our flame-ups, but most of the time it is one of the more intellectual forums about horse racing around. Keep on reading and contributing, you won't be sorry!
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Re: Rogue

Postby Roguelet » Thu May 29, 2008 7:15 pm

jagger wrote:Question for Rogue. If a forum member is quarantined or in a "time out", what exactly does this mean? Cannot participate on the forums I suspect. Cannot vote on polls. Can still get the site? Can read the various forums? Can be PM'd? Cannot use search or x-factor?


They can still read everything, and it has no bearing on anything over on the pedigree side of the site... it only affects ability to actively post on the forum side. I THINK they can still receive PMs but won't be able to read them until the time-out is over, but honestly I'm not 100% sure about that one... basically, they have access to everything that a lurker who hasn't registered does... pretty much the only thing affected is their ability to post on the forum.
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jagger
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Rokeby

Postby jagger » Thu May 29, 2008 7:19 pm

Thanks, Rogue. Can I ask the nature/duration of Rokeby's time out? How long? Not cause or anything. PM me if not appropriate in forum.
Thanks

BridledObsession
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Postby BridledObsession » Fri May 30, 2008 6:31 am

I'm sure this is not even necessary, as you can all tell from how easy going I am..........Cancer :lol: No Zoloft, but I'd like to give my ex some to if it mellows him out at all :wink:

Bunty Lawless
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Postby Bunty Lawless » Fri May 30, 2008 11:21 am

Zoloft-free here. Prefer Chamomile Tea myself and a quiet day with birds chirping in the trees above the pastures.

Perception is everything.

Perception is generally formed from each individual's personal experience.

I disagree with the proposition that there is a difference between attacking a person's words or expressed thoughts, and attacking the individual person.

Aren't words, expressed thoughts and actions only extensions of the individual?

Granted, some people are more artful in expressing themselves. But artful is a talent, not a character trait.

Interesting survey. Perhaps there needs to be set definitions and examples as to what the moderator means by extreme or any other definitions subject to individual perception. It might make it easier for the perceptually challenged and the moderator to get on the same page.

Tiz
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Postby Tiz » Sat May 31, 2008 12:06 pm

Sam wrote...
"I get remembered because WHEN I step in, a lot of people will watch for whatever reason."

Seems to me that you get "remembered" because you use nasty,foul language, and you are especially dismissive of other forum member's opinions, Sam. But that's, you know, just my opinion.

Sorry you got the hook for this, bdw. Doesn't look fair to me.