So you want to be an owner...

[cng]

Thirty dollars a day??? That's shocking! I can't imagine getting out of bed at 4:30 in the morning, driving to the track, feeding your horse, galloping your horse then walking it, mucking the stall, paying for waste removal, bedding the stall, feeding the horse lunch, doing the horse up in whatever was required, feeding the horse dinner again and then only charging you 30 bucks. I'm lucky to get broodmare care for that price.

When I was training, my horses were already finished eating at 4:30AM (4AM, 12PM, 8PM) My wife, myself and one good hand took care of usually around 15 head. Back then jocks came begging to gallop your horses for free, for first call. If my owners paid their bill (about half didn't) I could get by on day money (i didn't need to). I wouldn't waste time on a horse that couldn't run and would tell my clients early on if I thought they had a pig. Some wouldn't believe me so I would direct them to someone who would be happy to take their day money plus anything else. It was hard work but I had a 30% winners average. I couldn't have done that had I not culled quickly and hard. I also couldn't have done it with any bigger stable without losing touch with the horses and control of the operation.

[AscotStud]

SLK,

I agree with what you are saying. After spending a winter at Oaklawn and a training center down there it's interesting seeing how much work can get done when you have some hard working people. The problem is (and where some of the posters are coming from) is the purses at Woodbine are so high, the price for everything is way more than it should be, from hay to vet bills, good and bad riders and grooms. The problem there though is that for every good outfit that really is spending the full $75-100 on their day rate, there are some pretty shotty outfits.

[spex4me]

Sparafucile-

Your story is all to familiar like some have said. I felt like I was doing nothing but banging my head on a desk so I did go out and obtain my trainer's license. But I also have a few years backside, much time on my hands now, and a lifetime of being attached to horses doing something or another. I will be better able to advise if I made a wise decision or not at the end of my anticipated first meet lol!

Curiosity has piqued me though. As far as the vet was concerned would the letters BVA mean anything? You can PM me for more (not real scientific info) if you do not feel comfortable responding publicly. Just a birds of a feather flocking together feeling.

I hope you and others in your situation do not throw in the towel completely, but I can understand breaking for awhile in the current economic enviornment. Sometimes just when it seems you have done all your homework you find out there is much much more to dig into. It really is a shame that shysters exist and that trusting any professional is going to treat you ethically has become questionable. But since I trust few, it really hasn't been too much of an issue lol! I have an earn it or I'm gone ratio when it comes to putting my trust in people. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.

[Sparafucile]

As far as the vet was concerned would the letters BVA mean anything?

Correct. That's him .....and the initials do not stand for Bad Veterinary Advice which is exactly what he gives!!!

[spex4me]

Yup, that would be my initial thought. Well when they say birds of a feather flock together put credence in it!! You will have a quick pm in a minute.

[bcassidy]

Unfortunately, this business is no different than any other. There are good/bad people and well-run/poorly run businesses at all levels of the game. New people breaking into this game will get taken advantage of by the unsrcupulous individual just as easily as in any other business.
You need to find individuals you can trust and preferrably someone who can demonstrate they have done it before. A good business plan would really start things off right.

[Timber]

British Veterinary Association

[AscotStud]

Timber,

The are talking about a vet who has the same initials

[wilf]

I know that vet and when the girl was connected with him I was in the same shedrow. He is a weasel and I think she was a pawn in his game to be honest. Sorry about your luck and hindsight is easy but going in small time is best to get your feet wet or claim one and see it run back soon after.

[st. louis kid]

Question for those out there concerning vets. What is your opinion of a vet being the only vet at a track administering race day lasix to horses, and that vet has horses in the same race that he either owns in his wife's name or he is listed as the breeder and is eligible for breeder's awards. Also races where his trainer has horses the trainer owns or is training for other clients. This has always bothered me, particularly because I have had disputes with this vet, he is very rude and I do not give him any of my business. Is this acceptable, and if not what would you do about it? Thanks.

[Sparafucile]

I guess one of the conclusions we come to from this little excersise is that there are a number of individuals who are able to take advantage of the inexperienced and are able to get away with it. They go unpunished while the newcomers (which this sport greatly needs) are never given a chance to be successful.

Why can't this sport "police" it's own members. I would like to propose that a list be drawn up and maintained where these people, like the vet BVA, are identified. Complaints against these individuals would be logged for all to see. Maybe the embarassment of being on such a list would rectify the complaint or maybe these crooks would think twice before cheating someone who could put their name on such a list. Anybody have any thoughts on this??

[photofinish]

Let me preface this reply by stating that I am tired and ONLY read the ORIGINAL post.

I HATE it when first timer owners run into this kind of scenario! A few years back, when I was a Chicago-based trainer, I ran into 3 fellows who were new owners and had been put into a 3-horse package for about $20,000. The fella who "set them up in racing" was a lifetime racetracker who had been walking hots at the time of the transaction. He resurected his trainer status. The whole package was worth about $8,000, max. I'm sure the "trainer" pocketed a % off of this. 2 horses had broken their maidens for $10,000 (bottom) and one was turning 4 and had yet to start when they bought him. Long story short, only 1 filly had any hope at all, and she ran around the $4000-$6250 level sfter I got the horses. The NW2 gelding was bowed and hopeless, even shipping to IN. The maiden had multiple issues and was donated to a rescue after I got the horses (6 months post-purchase). Thank Goodness I managed to win 5 races w/ the filly over the next 18 months.

What I hate is that the "make a quick buck" attitude could have soured not only the 3 partners for life, but think of all the people they would advise against ever entering the game? The 3 ended up sticking me for 2 months of training on the filly when she could no longer compete ( I said "Stop", they said "Keep trying" - I paid for it), but I wonder if their initial experience didn't contribute.

As a profession, a group, we trainers need to be more careful with newcomers. My standard speech is "If you reach into your pocket to cover 25% of your monthly horse bills, you had a GOOD month." While some horses can make money, most do not. It is a matter of putting your extra cash into somehting you enjoy, or giving it to Uncle Sam. I wish more trainers would think in terms of long-term health of the industry over "how much can I get for me right now?". Sometimes I am ashamed of my profession.

[Jane]

I don't get the big scandal.

The vet sold some horses to a trainer that you contracted to work on your behalf. The 2 horses turn out to be failures for whatever reason and you are mad at the guy who sold you the animals? I'd be questioning my own selection process for the trainer before pointing the finger at the seller. Maybe your trainer was more clueless than crooked, I assume she tried to win with these horses or perhaps her lack of knowledge is what prevented these animals from reaching their full potential...

I am assuming you had another vet do a prepurchase exam and that we are not talking about falsifing x-rays or scope exams or similar right? Something like that would be fraud and make this a whole other story.

I'm sorry things didn't work out for you but in this game things go wrong more than they go right.

[ageecee]

Sounds like the vet and the trainer were in on the deal and both pocketed money.

[Sparafucile]

Jane wrote

I don't get the big scandal.

No scandal....just the fact that a trainer and a vet knowingly took advantage of newcomers to the sport for the sake of their own individual profit and greed. As new people into the sport, we needed someone to hold our hand through the process and not someone who was more interested in putting their hand in our pockets!!

We were too trusting and naive. We didn't know that the sport operated in this way. That's why this sport is in big big trouble.

Thanks Jane. Now I know that

in this game things go wrong more than they go right.

This is to be expected and I shouldn't say anything about it. Let's let this continue so others can be "taken".