Economy's Latest Victim

[KBEquine]

I agree. The state programs are the key. Years ago, I was thinking that the BC would bring more national attention to the sport, but I don't think that has happened. . . . I was browzing the other night on Google and I came across a track that began out West with just informal QH racing. I'm wondering if that or shorter meets in various areas like what is practiced in the Europe and the UK might help. Maybe the logistics of it all would be prohibitive.

When I was growing up, the standardbred folks had grassroots support with the county race circuit. I remember sitting in the stands with my family, betting pennies on the horse with a name I liked or whose driver had the prettiest silks. The meet went for 2 weeks & then moved to the next county fair. Those races have been replaced with tractor pulls now.

When a representative of the Breeder's Cup stopped in at local breeding farms after the Monmouth event, talking about things they were thinking about doing for regional breeders, I had hope that was quickly dashed. The Breeder's Cup was in the ultimate position to help support the industry by expanding the fan base locally - I was thinking a day of racing in the region, for example, showcasing the best of the local horses and supporting a charity to bring new people to the track, for example.

But it wasn't to be.

Since the Breeder's Cup isn't likely to help bring out fans nationally or locally - absolutely the statebred programs need to step up their game & fill in the stands.

One final Breeder's Cup comment - if they DO announce a permanent home, while I don't normally favor watering it down with more races, in this instance, I'm hoping the pick Kentucky - not either coast. They could do dirt & turf races at Churchill & synthetic at Keeneland. It would end the 'you favored their synthetic horse over my dirt horse' argument & be centrally located.

[Shammy Davis]

I recall some years back that the state of OK clamped down on some illegal racing venues. That aside, I wonder if anyone is aware of some racing that being informally produced today. I would be interested how they get participants, what kind of track is used, etc.

[cewright]

I recall some years back that the state of OK clamped down on some illegal racing venues. That aside, I wonder if anyone is aware of some racing that being informally produced today. I would be interested how they get participants, what kind of track is used, etc.

A couple of years ago there was a big raid at a bush track in Thackerville, OK. http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=10102. I think the main complaint was the state was not getting their cut of the proceeds. With the amount of people in attendance and reports on the betting, some of the local wags commented the organizers should be hired by the local tracks rather than prosecuted. Match racing is a fixture in the rural southwest culture and there is a thriving market for desirable match horses to race in Mexico. Pari-mutual racing is a relatively recent phenomena in this part of the world. It is interesting to observe the average price of a QH yearling was 5X the price of a TB yearling at a recent sale in OKC. QH and TB race for similar purses in OK. Some speculate demand for match racers explains some of the difference.

[zinn21]

Certainly State programs are a benefit but gang the business model is broken period. When a little more than 1 out of 10 head at a race meet are competitive enough to run for purses where an owner can break even or profit you have a serious problem..

When trainers and riders and vets charge exorbitant fees to "work around horses" guaranteeing steeper losses for ownership, you have a serious problem.

When you have a gaming product with high operating costs competing with other forms of gaming with significantly lower operating expenses and there is no mitigation or in California's case , no way to compete you have a serious problem.

Until racetracks can compete via the incorporation of new revenue streams from other forms of Gaming, racing will continue to deteriorate. Until Vets and trainers etc. lower their fees the reduction of horses in training will continue.

[Shammy Davis]

Jess Jackson during an interview following the Eclipse Awards spoke of a league format for racing. It is an interesting concept that might work because it would give regulatory consistency to the sport, an administrative organization, as well means of rewarding people who want to invest in racing as owners.

He made an interesting comment. To paraphase, Jess Jackson said: Today, most (in the industry) are racing through their breeding programs.

He is not talking about homebreds either.

My perspective is that is so true. The number of horses going to the sales ring is extremely high and for the most part once a horse is sold, breeders return to the farm to breed more. Essentially, with the exception of breeding bonus, etc., their investment in racing stops when the hammer falls. (I'm not disparaging the breeding industry, because it is a vital component.) But there has to be a connection from beginning to end to make the industry self-supporting. The idea that slots and gaming will support the industry for the long term doesn't make sense because sooner or later the table gambling/slots side of the house is going to learn it can stand on its own w/out horseracing. Right now, they are using horseracing to get their foot in the door because in most states, gambling is confined to horseracing and for now horsemen have the political connections. It won't be long before that is out the door when gamblers make bigger political donations than the horsemen.

The long term financial commitment to race is often too much for individual investors to handle. Certainly, partnerships help to include more individuals as owners, but they are not truly invested for the long term and have limited involvement in the operation and management, if any.

I think any opposition to such a format would likely come from the JC. Look at Will Farish, who received an award for service. He is vice chair of the JC, on the board of the BC, a former board member of the NTRA, and also sits on boards of a number TB related foundations. People like him might say, why should I only have one piece of the pie when I can continue to have several.

I must say that I think the "league organization" proposal made by Jess Jackson was intriguing. Other than that, he is a very boring speaker and I thought for me to carry on a conversation w/ someone like him I'd likely have to have couple strong shots of whiskey.

I don't think the production of the Eclipse Awards was particularly good for racing either. The format left a great deal to be desired. For one thing it was aired on a racing channel and up until the HOY award excluded the mass TV audience. I think ESPN News and some FOX channels got in for the last 15 minutes.

Well, I think the "league format" idea has merit. Good for Jess Jackson for speaking about it.

[KBEquine]

Jess Jackson during an interview following the Eclipse Awards spoke of a league format for racing. It is an interesting concept that might work because it would give regulatory consistency to the sport, an administrative organization, as well means of rewarding people who want to invest in racing as owners.

Actually, this is pretty much what I was hoping for, from the visit from the Breeder's Cup rep a couple years ago (right up until the BC powers-that-be made it abundantly clear that their only priority was a day -- or two -- of international racing, not supporting the sport at the local level in this country).

I've heard others suggest it as a concept for someone else to push through. But Jackson doesn't seem like the kind of guy to suggest something & then sit back & wait for someone else to make it so.

This could be interesting.

[Dave C]

Certainly State programs are a benefit but gang the business model is broken period. When a little more than 1 out of 10 head at a race meet are competitive enough to run for purses where an owner can break even or profit you have a serious problem..

When trainers and riders and vets charge exorbitant fees to "work around horses" guaranteeing steeper losses for ownership, you have a serious problem.

When you have a gaming product with high operating costs competing with other forms of gaming with significantly lower operating expenses and there is no mitigation or in California's case , no way to compete you have a serious problem.

Until racetracks can compete via the incorporation of new revenue streams from other forms of Gaming, racing will continue to deteriorate. Until Vets and trainers etc. lower their fees the reduction of horses in training will continue.

I've been thinking about this for several days. It isn't just horse racing that has a broken business model, it is professional sports in general throughout the developed world. As examples look at the new Yankee's stadium in NY and the new Cowboy's stadium in TX. They did not build them because they couldn't fit all their fans into the old stadiums, they built stadiums about the same size but were better at accessing alternative revenue streams. Consider how the populations of NY and Dallas have grown over the life of the old stadiums and you can see how these teams although considered very successful at marketing have lost alot of market share (as a proportion of the market population). Bringing new revenue streams into the picture only causes the costs to go up, it does not make things more profitable for the owner. This is the problem across all professional sports.

[Shammy Davis]

Dave C, I agree w/your thoughts. To place horseracing in the same model as corporate America is somewhat naive.

There has to come a time when the racing industry decides that it will stand on its own. The notion that slots or casino gambling is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is just not going to happen over the long term. Horsemen are being used by the casinos to get their foot in the state regulator's door. Once there, horsemen will be outside looking in.

The idea of a "league format" is very intriguing. Certainly, a centralized authority is important. It doesn't necessarily have to be through the JC. The JC can still handle the registration end.

[Shammy Davis]

Here is some interesting, if not historical, research done on the 2007 Breeder's Cup.

http://policy.rutgers.edu/cupr/recon/report061201.pdf

[griff]

Shammy Davis

I realize and accept that I am naive concerning horse racing but do believe horse racing in WV has benefited greatly from the slots and casino revenue. And I belive the recent approval of table gambling at Charles Town will result in improved purses which are already better that most neighboring tracks plus increased awards to the WVBRED program

I also believe racing in PA is starting to realize some real benefit from their relatively new slots and casino policy..

Colonial Downs is one of the finest faciities in the country and only races for 8 weeks a year.. I believe slots and casino gambling at that facility and the State's off site betting facilities would breath new life in to Virginia's Thoroughbred program.. That, I fear is not going to happen a long as the religous right says in control in our fair state.

I do agree that slots and casinos are not a panacia as I don't know what you would do with 62,000 slots in KY; i.e., maybe they could put one at every gas station.

griff

[Shammy Davis]

Griff, I don't think you are naive. I highly respect you, because you are one of the few people I know of in VA that is running horses. My wife and I have often talked about getting involved as owners, but financial concerns always stepped in. There is fourteen years difference between our oldest daughter and youngest daughter. I'm still paying for the older's college and graduate school while looking at the youngest going off to college next year.

I agree in VA, it is highly unlikely that slots/table gambling will appear anytime soon. If it were to occur, I think, it would be a help over the short term, but having been on the outside looking in, I think that other states that have allowed slots at the tracks have only made a temporary fix. The gambling industry is only going to carry horseracing until it gets a firm foot in the door. After that, I think you will be seeing horsemen shown the back door. It's not going to happen anytime soon, though. The gamblers have other states to conquer. They won't show their hand until they have all the states wrapped up. You may remember in PA, that the racing commission, had to force the gamblers to make the modifications at the track facilities that had been agreed upon. It took quite awhile to get that moving.

You idea of slots in the gas stations has merit. With the price of gas on the raise, it may cost just as much to run your car up the highway as it does to haul your horse to WV. VA isn't going anywhere w/its racing anytime soon. You are smart to run out of state and it is smart to breed in states where you can count on the breeding bonuses.

The new governor, right of center of not, has too much on his economic plate to worry about VA horseracing. So I don't see VA government becoming involved.

It is truly a crying shame because CD is a wonderful facility.

[griff]

WOW! You are still paying college cost for a kid that is 14 year older than his brother that is entering college next year??

I thought I was the only one that had a problem figuring out what caused babies.. My oldest boy is 39 and his youngest brother is 22. I am still paying for the 22 year old's college but his older brother has been on his own for many many years.

The CTown track is tuff on horses, especially big horses and I'm going to start sending my 17 hh Civilisation gelding to Mountaineer as soon as his brother wins enough money to get him back in training.. Mountaineer has table gambling and although their purses were not as good at CTowns last year they paid a 135% owner/Breeder bonus on WVBRED winnings. I don't expect the bonus to be that good this year but I'd be thrilled with half of that.

The major problem with Mountaineer is it's a very long drive from Yorktown to watch my horse run.

griff

[Shammy Davis]

Griff: As you said, it is truly ashame that VA can't get its act together. Wouldn't it be nice if you could leave the house, take a 1/2 hour drive to the track and watch your horses train everyday?

I've still got ownership on my mind. I'm hoping someday. Until then, we'll stay active w/the hunt.

[griff]

Shammy Davis

Why don't you do both.. I can't think of better training for a distance turf horse, that you intend to run at Mountaineer, than point to point racing..

You'd have to find or breed the right horse..

I have a friend that bred a 16.3 mare with perfect conformation to Siphon last year.. That's going to one good looking foal but will probably be more valuable as an eventing horse than as a race horse. Still, if he lets that foal mature and starts him right he/she may do well on the turf at a mile plus.

griff

[Shammy Davis]

Griff posted:

Why don't you do both..

I've thought about that. With college pending for my youngest, my first priority is her future.