Who is risking what? Zenyatta or Rachel

General on-topic discussion.

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zinn21
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Postby zinn21 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:22 pm

Horsenuts wrote:

zinn21 wrote:
With all due respect to RA; if she was as great as people claim she is, Zardana shouldn't be able to warm her up. Some of you folks think a seasoned horse who was out of training for a few months is starting back at square one once they return to training. That is folly. She was plenty fit yesterday. Plenty fit. Zardana beats her three quarters of a length and the rest of the field is 12 lengths behind. If Zardana was not in the race they would be calling RA's race a monster return..

Rachel ran the table against a bunch of less than stellar fillies and males last year. Zenyatta, on the other hand, just toys with her opposition whether it's a bunch of west coast fillies or the best older males in the world. She comes from dead last in virtually all her races and is 15 for 15. Do you realize how good you have to be to win two in a row coming from dead last?



You might want to look back at racing history before making such claims. Affirmed was beaten twice upon his return to racing as a 4 year old after having won the TC the year before...... he than went on to win the rest of his races and was named HoY. Seattle Slew was another who lost upon returning to the races as a 4 year old. Citation struggled as well after a year lay off. Three TC winners and all lost upon returning to the races.


RA was likely not 100% cranked up but she was tight enough. Had Shirreffs elected not to send Zardana, RA would have won by ten and this "short horse" excuse would be a moot point.

griff
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Postby griff » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:03 pm

looks like Jackson just blinked

griff
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oliverstoned
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Postby oliverstoned » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:14 pm

Man, Sheriffs just cost the Mosses 3 million dollars. Had he not sent Zardana RA wins by nine or ten and goes on to the Apple Blossom.

Shergar
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Postby Shergar » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:28 pm

oliverstoned wrote:Man, Sheriffs just cost the Mosses 3 million dollars. Had he not sent Zardana RA wins by nine or ten and goes on to the Apple Blossom.


I'm going to go out on a limb and say Jerry Moss wasn't counting on the 3
million to pay his mortgage. :D

By saying the win by Zardana cost Jerry Moss 3 million, you are claiming Zenyatta was going to win?

I thought from you post you were a Rachel Alexandra backer.

Regards,
Shergar

oliverstoned
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Postby oliverstoned » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:14 pm

Shergar wrote:
oliverstoned wrote:Man, Sheriffs just cost the Mosses 3 million dollars. Had he not sent Zardana RA wins by nine or ten and goes on to the Apple Blossom.


I'm going to go out on a limb and say Jerry Moss wasn't counting on the 3
million to pay his mortgage. :D

By saying the win by Zardana cost Jerry Moss 3 million, you are claiming Zenyatta was going to win?

I thought from you post you were a Rachel Alexandra backer.

Regards,
Shergar


A fan of both but yes I gave the edge to RA for HOY last year, but after seeing her works and this "prep" race I do believe Zenyatta and possibly another horse or two would have beat her in the Apple Blossom.

Yeah maybe he didn't need the 3mil but I bet he woulda liked to beat RA.

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Sysonby
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Postby Sysonby » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:46 pm

Also Zardana's owner might have had a thing or two to say about whether she ran. Shirreffs is remarkably sportsmanlike that way--think of all of the times Life is Sweet faced Zenyatta.

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spex4me
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Postby spex4me » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:28 pm

Roflmao at the Sheriff's comment costing Mosses 3 million, as well as the two gears Zenyatta has LOLLING and STEAMROLLING !! :lol:

I wonder if this will shape like the Seabiscuit/War Admiral chase, everywhere RA is pointed Zenyatta follows suit.

And if for nothing else Z proves there ain't a darn thing wrong with waiting on perfection!!!! :D :D :D
trying to come up with something brillant..... this may take a while. :)

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George William Smith
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Postby George William Smith » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:53 pm

Interesting splits: Zenyatta runs 9 furlongs, carrying 127 pounds in 1:48.20. Her last 5/8ths was done in 11.90/11.61/11.44/and then waiting and making her own hole on the rail was 12.49 with the last eighth in 11.58 of which the next sixteenth was 5.91 and then 5.67 to the finish line. Remarkable.

Rachel was not really stopping as her last two sixteenths were 6.08 and 6.12. If she were not fit, there should be a much greater difference in those last two splits. She was just beaten by a better horse that day and on the same track. Can't compare the splits between SA and FG as the surfaces are much different.
:D

zinn21
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Postby zinn21 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:59 am

George wrote:

Rachel was not really stopping as her last two sixteenths were 6.08 and 6.12. If she were not fit, there should be a much greater difference in those last two splits. She was just beaten by a better horse that day and on the same track. Can't compare the splits between SA and FG as the surfaces are much different.


Bingo.. I am so tired of hearing she is and was not fit. JJ is bailing because she got beat by one of Shirreffs second string mares. She should be top dead center for her next start after this race. He just doesn't want to watch his filly get beat. JJ knows as much about a horses fitness as the man on the moon. I'd like to see him tell Johnny Nerud or Charlie Whittingham she is not fit and ready to go..

Aug27
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Postby Aug27 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:08 am

dublino wrote:Look at Street Sense's and Mine that Birds Derby wins, they weren't the best horses in their field but the won on the day under very good rides.


I disagree wholeheartedly: I think they were the best horses in those races, and would have won with nearly anyone in the saddle.

{I LOL at oliverstoned's comment ... I like it!!}

horsenuts
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Postby horsenuts » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:49 am

zinn21 wrote:George wrote:

Rachel was not really stopping as her last two sixteenths were 6.08 and 6.12. If she were not fit, there should be a much greater difference in those last two splits. She was just beaten by a better horse that day and on the same track. Can't compare the splits between SA and FG as the surfaces are much different.


Bingo.. I am so tired of hearing she is and was not fit. JJ is bailing because she got beat by one of Shirreffs second string mares. She should be top dead center for her next start after this race. He just doesn't want to watch his filly get beat. JJ knows as much about a horses fitness as the man on the moon. I'd like to see him tell Johnny Nerud or Charlie Whittingham she is not fit and ready to go..



How anyone can fault RA after what she did last year is a head scratcher...... but plenty do on this board. I know of NO horse in racing last year (including Zenyatta) that would have beaten RA when she went on that 9 race roll winning the Ky. Oaks in a romp coming back two weeks later to win the Preakness and a month after that in another laugher in the Mother Goose followed by a 6 length win in the Haskell. RA was a superior horse on dirt surfaces last year and rightfully earned the HoY title.

2010 is a new year and RA may never return to her previous form. Many great horses never can recapture previous form for a variety of reasons. Still, it's to early to dismiss her just yet as obviously she wasn't up to her old self this past weekend as we all witnessed.

oliverstoned
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Postby oliverstoned » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:27 pm

Now do the two Zs meet in the Apple Blossom? Wouldn't that be crazy if Zardana knocks off Zenyatta right after beating Rachel!

horsenuts
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Postby horsenuts » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:04 pm

oliverstoned wrote:Now do the two Zs meet in the Apple Blossom? Wouldn't that be crazy if Zardana knocks off Zenyatta right after beating Rachel!


I'll be looking for an outsider and won't be shocked if Zenyatta gets beat (they all get beat eventually..... provided they run often enough to do so).