Interesting Lasix/Breeding stock observation made..

[photofinish]

I haven,t seen never, a horse breaking down, because of the bleeding. They won,t even stop at once , but decreasing their speed.

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Yeah, well I havee seen them die from bleeding. Seen it a few times. Never one of mine, thank God, but I have watched it happen. Some friends of mine who have QHs lost one a few years ago. They use less medication than any QH trainers I have EVER seen, they take real good care of their horses, but they don;t win because they don;t over medicate. They lost one of their homebred colts a few years ago from bleeding out through the nostrils.

You swear your pure horses don't bleed. Do you EVER scope them after a race??? Most horses have eveidence of blood in the trachea, it doesn't always make it out the nostrils.

[BenB]

I never said ours don,t bleed, as I have bred, and raised one myself and I have seen her bleeding badly in an race, together with my family. She was still bleeding twenty minutes after the race.

Less than two percent from all the race fatalities, comes because of bleeding b.t.w..

If one is putting streneous workstress on horses 72% from the horses will bleed internally, but this has not to mean that they ever will bleed through the nostrils.

Seen her the next day, and nobody could say, that she bled the other day.
She was galoping in the paddock.

[winds]

Without lasix a horse that bleeds a little will become a horse who bleeds through the nostrils. Why would any horseman want that to happen? That is NOT in the best interest of the horse.

winds

[BenB]

It,s not in the best interest from the owner.

[winds]

No, Ben, it's not in the best interest for the horse. If you think owners are that bad, why are you even interested in horse racing? Even the owners from your side of the pond will run their horses here in the US if they bleed.

Do you know how little the fields would be without lasix in the US, and they are already small enough. Or would you rather their only be a few racetracks and only the rich and powerful own horses and not the small breeder/owner?

It's the small breeder/owner who is trying to bring stamina back into the picture. But that takes years of breeding for it to become a mainstay in the picture. During that time and beyond, there will be bleeders. Despite the good intentions of the breeders trying to weed this out. It has always been and always will be. Just a fact of life.

To not give them lasix hurts the horse. Period! It has nothing to do with the owner! It is what is best for the horse. If you feel that little about owners, get out of the business and find another hobby to follow.

winds

[BenB]

I,ve gave my horse away after she bled in the race, and yes it,s costs me 100 000 dollar in total. Yes that,s hurts. But it was in the best interest for the horse, she got an terrific place as a pethorse, dooiing nothing except keeping the big pastures cut.

The legallysation from lasix has created it,s own problems.

Numbers from tracks will stop in the time to come, as breeding has come down to halve the numbers from yr 2009. They will loose about 5% from the horses, and that,s a pitty for them.

Explain to me why do you keeping up horses with an inherited flaw????.

By giving them lasix, you are able to put more streneous workloads on them,in order to get them prepared for racing.

What is not possible without lasix, because you have to train them different.

It is just like to loose your candy, what you got in the last forty years.

Iam curious whether the Breeders Cup limited will held their premises made at the L,Arc meeting last year, in which they stated that all the two yr races are gooiing without lasix.

Iam applauding for the kentucky racehorse commision getting the job done, and seeking for legalization banning the stuff in the yrs to come.

[winds]

So you would rather see the industry die, rather than help horses who bleed run on lasix? Is that what you are saying? It seems it to me.

Having worked on the racetrack as an assistant trainer, I know for a fact that the majority of horses bleed. Even if it's only a trace. I also know that I worked in the industry before lasix was allowed in NY. We used other things to stop our horses from bleeding, just as they are doing in Europe. However, nothing works as good as lasix.

Why do you want to deprive owners the right, yes the RIGHT to try and recoup some of their investment in the horse? Lasix is the right way to go about it. It helps the horse and allows the owner the chance to recoup their investment. That doesn't make the owner a bad person. Most just tell the trainer to do what they think is right by the horse, so they are put on lasix. Enough said.

winds

[BenB]

Is it their right to use race enhacers, no it is not. Only in the US some are seeiing it different.

Like I wrote before, and your reply: about recouping some of the investment (that is basically the source ). And that has nothing to do with the horse.

[winds]

You have no idea the costs of raising and running a horse. None whatsover, no matter what you say. I'd rather run a horse on lasix and keep it from bleeding than not and have it bleed through the nostrils, even if it's just once. No matter how it acted the next day running in the field as you said yours did. Obviously, you didn't care for that horse for if you did, you would have helped it to not bleed. Enough said.

winds

[BenB]

As Iam having a part in an racehorse, at this time of writing Iam actual very aware of training fees, vet costs, entry fees, travel cost, licence costs and everything else, so do not write things that are not truth.

And yes, Iam protecting the breed, by handling the way I did, and you are not able to prove the justification of your own handling, just because of the cost involved.

[winds]

You're not protecting the breed. You're annihilating it. If you think that the Euro trainers don't use things to stop bleeding you are kidding yourself. They do.

If you think that trainers in the past didn't use different methods to stop bleeding, you're kidding yourself again.

No lasix will be the beginning of the end of an industry, or it will bring about more illegal drugs to stop bleeding. Maybe it will do both. No more stallions, no more mares, no more thoroughbred industry, no more jobs,no more racetracks, nothing. All because people don't want a viable raceday drug to be used anymore that helps horses.

winds

[BenB]

How in the world, are we able to race over here if that is the truth.

worldwide 900 000 starts are made without raceday medication, compared to the US with some 400 000 starts from which 95% are made with lasix, for an anual cost of 28 million bucks, while lesss than 5% is favoured by the stuff.

The false statement your are making, is people scaring by the almighty doom theory. Which is only desperately sought.

There will as much racing without the stuff as with the stuff, only the names will change.

There will be even lesser breakdowns, as the racing times will be slower.

Off course we try, to treat bleeders only not by giving them diurectics etc, what is prohibited in our law.

[TJ]

How in the world, are we able to race over here if that is the truth.

worldwide 900 000 starts are made without raceday medication, compared to the US with some 400 000 starts from which 95% are made with lasix, for an anual cost of 28 million bucks, while lesss than 5% is favoured by the stuff.

The false statement your are making, is people scaring by the almighty doom theory. Which is only desperately sought.

There will as much racing without the stuff as with the stuff, only the names will change.

There will be even lesser breakdowns, as the racing times will be slower.

Off course we try, to treat bleeders only not by giving them diurectics etc, what is prohibited in our law.

Hi Ben,
Please supply the link to the cumulative number of races "statistic" you just quoted. Thank you, TJ

[BenB]

Just look to the site of the Grayson Jockeyclub, each and every figure I wrote is there to be found.

this might be very useful also:

http://www.cleanhorseracing.org/Default ... =learnmore

[TJ]

Just look to the site of the Grayson Jockeyclub, each and every figure I wrote is there to be found.

this might be very useful also:

http://www.cleanhorseracing.org/Default ... =learnmore

Hi Ben,
Thanks anyway....I was on the Grayson site but couldn't find it. TJ