Have Lasix and other drugs ruined racing?

[Tucumcari]

Exactly. You CHOOSE to run sans the lasix and bute or whatever else. It is a level playing field of you choose to run on legal medication. If you CHOOSE to not use salix or bute then why complain? Why scope unless she gave you reason.

[pokeyman]

You might feel slighted but it is your choice to run your horses as you want just like it is other people's choices to run them on legal medications.
So why did you scope your filly ?[/quote]

Hi. Yes, it is our choice and one we feel strongly about running our horses clean. I wish all owners felt the same way and would try to run their horses clean. I doubt that 99% of horses bleed. Everyone knows it is a performance enhancer and a drug masker.....

We scoped her as she stopped abruptly in her race while in 2nd and about to take the lead. It was such a violent stop my trainer thought she bled.

However, no evidence of any bleeding with scope. Zero. Not even a little..absolutely nothing.

But, Vet found an airway issue that we are investigating further as it seems she might be displacing her soft palate...

[Entry Blank]

You might feel slighted but it is your choice to run your horses as you want just like it is other people's choices to run them on legal medications.
So why did you scope your filly ?

Hi. Yes, it is our choice and one we feel strongly about running our horses clean. I wish all owners felt the same way and would try to run their horses clean. I doubt that 99% of horses bleed. Everyone knows it is a performance enhancer and a drug masker.....

We scoped her as she stopped abruptly in her race while in 2nd and about to take the lead. It was such a violent stop my trainer thought she bled.

However, no evidence of any bleeding with scope. Zero. Not even a little..absolutely nothing.

But, Vet found an airway issue that we are investigating further as it seems she might be displacing her soft palate...[/quote]

Im glad your filly didnt bleed , and it sounds like a figure 8 and a tongue tie could be a soulution to her flipping her soft palate. If my statement came across as argumentitive that wasnt at all my intention.
Saying everyone knows that Lasix is a masker of other drugs is an unfounded statement , there havent been any studies done in all the possible drug situations to say without a doubt that Lasix mask's other drugs. Its a guess at best , maybe someday they will have done enough research with all the diffirent kinds of medications out there to prove beyond a doubt that Lasix does mask illegal medications until then its a hypothesis.

[pokeyman]

Entryblank- thank you. Yes, we are glad she didn't bleed as well!!

We have watched the average number of starts for TBs dwindle. So, we decided to think outside the box.

We try to choose sound bloodlines in limb and wind. Thus, we are really bummed out at the airway problem on this filly. The dam had 43 starts and the sire had 62 so we were really hoping for soundness. Could just be a fluke as the mare and her progeny have had no airway problems that we know of.....But, still disappointing.

We race drug free and rest if a horse can't show up clean on raceday.

We race barefoot to ease the concussive force on the hoof.

We turn out 12-24 hours a day to allow the body to heal via natural movement.

So, we are pretty much totally up against it!!

A great book on lasix is called "Run Baby Run what every owner, breeder and handicapper should know about lasix". Totally changed our opinion on lasix and is a must read for anyone involved in the industry.

Most importantly, we change all of the above if the horse demands it and treat each one individually. We are not extremists who think in black and white. Not every horse can fit into this mold but we always give them a chance......

[Entry Blank]

Entryblank- thank you. Yes, we are glad she didn't bleed as well!!

We have watched the average number of starts for TBs dwindle. So, we decided to think outside the box.

We try to choose sound bloodlines in limb and wind. Thus, we are really bummed out at the airway problem on this filly. The dam had 43 starts and the sire had 62 so we were really hoping for soundness. Could just be a fluke as the mare and her progeny have had no airway problems that we know of.....But, still disappointing.

We race drug free and rest if a horse can't show up clean on raceday.

We race barefoot to ease the concussive force on the hoof.

We turn out 12-24 hours a day to allow the body to heal via natural movement.

So, we are pretty much totally up against it!!

A great book on lasix is called "Run Baby Run what every owner, breeder and handicapper should know about lasix". Totally changed our opinion on lasix and is a must read for anyone involved in the industry.

Most importantly, we change all of the above if the horse demands it and treat each one individually. We are not extremists who think in black and white. Not every horse can fit into this mold but we always give them a chance......

Sounds like you have a pretty good program for your horses , it would be nice if more owners would give their horses time but money always seems to be the factor in not giving horses proper time to develope or overcome injury. I dont have a problem with horses running on lasix , and like I stated before I think all drugs could be eliminated 72 hours out from a race with the exception of lasix.
I applaud you pro-activeness in being involved with the health and breeding of your horses and I wish you the best of luck in racing.

[pokeyman]

Sounds like you have a pretty good program for your horses , it would be nice if more owners would give their horses time but money always seems to be the factor in not giving horses proper time to develope or overcome injury. I dont have a problem with horses running on lasix , and like I stated before I think all drugs could be eliminated 72 hours out from a race with the exception of lasix.
I applaud you pro-activeness in being involved with the health and breeding of your horses and I wish you the best of luck in racing.[/quote]

Thank you.....

Hopefully, our 2 year old will make Saratoga (New york bred races) as she is doing great...so far. Our Cozzene and Concerto homebreds will be started this Fall. Thus, there is hope for the future. I guess always the eternal optimist when you are a breeder!! LOL

[Bid]

Pokeyman- it's great to hear how you treat your horses. I'd love to see a star come out of that both for your sake and racing.

To get back to my questions about Lasix, does anyone think that it allows horses to win races that otherwise shouldn't run? Does that water down the breed? Does it hurt racing in the long run? I think those were my thoughts at the beginning of this thread. I realize most run on it. I just wonder about the effects.

[Entry Blank]

Pokeyman- it's great to hear how you treat your horses. I'd love to see a star come out of that both for your sake and racing.

To get back to my questions about Lasix, does anyone think that it allows horses to win races that otherwise shouldn't run? Does that water down the breed? Does it hurt racing in the long run? I think those were my thoughts at the beginning of this thread. I realize most run on it. I just wonder about the effects.

I guess in addition to your question mine would be does anyone think that horses didnt bleed before lasix and trainers didnt use other measures to stop it , like starving them going into a race.

[pokeyman]

To get back to my questions about Lasix, does anyone think that it allows horses to win races that otherwise shouldn't run? Does that water down the breed? Does it hurt racing in the long run? .

ABSOLUTELY

ABSOLUTELY

ABSOLUTELY

For example, I believe that Summer Squall was a true bleeder and couldn't race in NY since they didn't allow lasix at the time.

Here is the real struggle as I see it: The problem lines in determining who is a true bleeder based on genetics and who bleeds based on environmental conditions (shoes which restrict blood flow; being stabled in a stall with dust; poor training, etc).

So, some horses who bleed may not be natural bleeders (who under the right circumstances would not bleed).

Others, are genetically geared to bleed due to bad genes.

So, how do you determine who is who so they can be eliminated from the gene pool?

On another note, as you know, one of my fillies has airway problems. If this is truly confirmed than you can bet your behind she will not be bred by me in the future.

People give lasix because they feel there is a competitive advantage by using it. Plain and simple. I would venture that 95%+ of horses on lasix are not true bleeders. Even if people wanted to run drug free they feel they can't as they realize that they will be at a competitive disadvantage.

I think lasix and bute (racing on them not therapeutic use in the case of bute); inability to require horses to carry weight; lack of an emphasis on racing multiple years; and diminishing distances all contribute to a declining (inferior) gene pool.

[Entry Blank]

To get back to my questions about Lasix, does anyone think that it allows horses to win races that otherwise shouldn't run? Does that water down the breed? Does it hurt racing in the long run? .

ABSOLUTELY

ABSOLUTELY

ABSOLUTELY

For example, I believe that Summer Squall was a true bleeder and couldn't race in NY since they didn't allow lasix at the time.

Here is the real struggle as I see it: The problem lines in determining who is a true bleeder based on genetics and who bleeds based on environmental conditions (shoes which restrict blood flow; being stabled in a stall with dust; poor training, etc).

So, some horses who bleed may not be natural bleeders (who under the right circumstances would not bleed).

Others, are genetically geared to bleed due to bad genes.

So, how do you determine who is who so they can be eliminated from the gene pool?

On another note, as you know, one of my fillies has airway problems. If this is truly confirmed than you can bet your behind she will not be bred by me in the future.

People give lasix because they feel there is a competitive advantage by using it. Plain and simple. I would venture that 95%+ of horses on lasix are not true bleeders. Even if people wanted to run drug free they feel they can't as they realize that they will be at a competitive disadvantage.

I think lasix and bute (racing on them not therapeutic use in the case of bute); inability to require horses to carry weight; lack of an emphasis on racing multiple years; and diminishing distances all contribute to a declining (inferior) gene pool.

While I might agree with alot of what you say , in my opinon , when the big breeding farms stopped controling what was and wasnt bred and raced it was the beginning of the end in a way. Not so very long ago breeding farms controlled the stallions and often times the fancy broodmares and if a horse couldnt be proven on the track they would cull them out and they either sold them or just got rid of them.
Its when , and this is just my opinon , people started standing their own stallions and breeding for faster rewards that we started having horses like Storm Cat be a prominant sire , young fast skilled horses that were good at two and 3 and not much after that. People became attracted to the speed and quick returns on their investment.

[Gallop58]

By the way, [correction] some of the book mentioned above is in google books for free reading...

Run Baby Run what every owner, breeder and handicapper should know about lasix, by Bill Heller

[I didn't see the larger chunk of ommitted material in the google version when I originally posted this...]

[Bid]

EB- I agree about the local stallions and breeding early speed at the expense of longevity. All these things tie in together to pull racing down. Poor breeding management, standing stallions who couldn't race and artificially propping up marginal horses with performance enhancers have all played a part.
Another thing that hurts racing is closing tracks for most of the year. I realize that the tracks rotate dates (and horses) throughout each state. I watch Lone Star every year campaign to bring in families. Fireworks, live bands, kiddie rides are all geared to get the families in. Just as people get accustomed to going, the track closes from July through April. Out of site-out of mind. Just horrible marketing for a business that struggles.