My horses Mother?

[AfleetAlex#1fan]

Well she lifter her upper lip before and I never saw a tattoo that is.
Thanks,
Jordan

[Crystal]

OK, SO SHE DOESN'T HAVE A TATTOO? Then we don't even know if she Was ever registered. She never raced if there is no tattoo. Which MOST LIKELY MEANS SHE WAS NEVER TYPED.

[BJ]

She dosent have a lip tattoo wish she did.Someone else metioned this mare saying Steven Peterson once owned her go back to pg: 3 and you should be able to find it.Any othere mare(s) info or etc.. that can lead to my horses mother would be great I still also need the VGL Case #`s as the Jockey Clubs says they cant give them out I dont get how I can DNA type my mare now.Is there such thing as a DNA typing were they dont have a lip tattoo and you dont know her mother and/or father "I do know her father"
Thanks,
Jordan

Jordan,

Please answer these questions very clearly:

1. Where did you get this mare/filly? (If you need to PM me with that info, please do so.

2. WHAT exactly, did they tell you about her age, and WHO bred her (if anything). Was she absolutely bred in Oregon? Please be specific.

3. What is her color?

4. Did she have ANY foals that you know of?

5. IF she had any foals, what years or approximate years.

6. Did you order a "STALLION PROGENY REPORT"? It would be about $18-20 dollars for a COMPLETE one. If you DID, you need to get it to me...somehow...we can work on that one if necessary.

If you KNOW the year YOUR MARE was foaled, AND HER SIRE, I *may* be able to get a free one for ONLY her foaling year. Can't promise. Need to see what the "specials" are for this month on my Equineline account.

Don't direct me to the other posts. We need this info in one place to have any hope of unraveling this mystery. I love mysteries...but can't take having to chop weeds to get to unraveling it. Pardon my impatience...I'm old and getting older by the second!

[BJ]

Oregon Thoroughbred Breeders Association
Fall Mixed Sale
Saturday, Sept. 22, 2001, 1:00 PM, at Portland Meadows
Racetrack, Portland OR

Hip #93. Pie Rise 1986, Rising Market-Delightful Pie (Wild Deputy);
Allen Floyd, M. Stafford, A. Guier, Othello WA - $2,600.

Barretts (California) 2001 October Sale
THE CATALOG PAGE of Pie Rise's 2001 foal. It also shows that Pie Rise is UNRACED and her produce record through 2001.
http://www.barretts.com/catalog/CATOC201/pdf/227.pdf

The foal was purchased for $3600 and was purchased by: Bill and Dean Kinch

Hip #227 2001 ch.f.,
Wild Deputy - Pie Rise
Valley Creek Farm, Agent
$3,600 Bill and Dean Kinch

There are also a couple of UNRACED FILLIES/MARES out of a mare (Bells Bay Beauty) that shows NO produce after 2001 (verified w/JC) and *may have been a breeding discard*. They are BOTH by ABSTRACT. See below:

Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2003


BELLS BAY BEAUTY, 1992, Sea Aglo- Sensual Bell by Bel Sorel (Gb).
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI

1998 Beemer,c,Boutinierre 3 9 0 1 1 2,070 ( 65) 0.09
IN CANADA (since 2003) 1 9 1 2 0 2,632
North America Dirt Sprints 17 1 3 1 4,492 ( 65)
North America Dirt Routes 1 0 0 0 210 ( 58)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 4 0 1 1 1,540 ( 65)
DP = 3-1-4-4-0 DI = 1.00 CD = 0.25 AWD = 6.00

1999 Ugopepper,g,Boutinierre 3 24 4 2 4 9,915 ( 76) 0.17
North America 2 YO Record 3 0 0 0 180 ( 40)
North America Dirt Sprints 7 0 0 0 348 ( 61)
North America Dirt Routes 17 4 2 4 9,567 ( 76)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 8 1 0 2 2,577 ( 69)
DP = 3-1-4-4-0 DI = 1.00 CD = 0.25 AWD = 8.25
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
ORESEP 2000 0020 $2,100 $2,300 ylg ( 2/ 3) $850

2000 Bells Delight,f,Abstract Unraced
DP = 2-4-12-6-0 DI = 1.00 CD = 0.08

2001 Bells Bay Star,f,Abstract (pending)
DP = 2-4-12-6-0 DI = 1.00 CD = 0.08

[BJ]

Ricci Rathka's info posted on web STALLION site
http://www.ophb-tcf.org/stallion_listings.htm


Color Time
Rathka, Ricci
23231 NW Pihl Road
Banks, OR 97106
503/324-1116

[Linda in TX]

Please answer these questions very clearly: 1. Where did you get this mare/filly?

BJ, start at the beginning of this thread. Most of your questions have already been answered. Jordan picked up the rescued FILLY, not a MARE, from Cross Country Ranch in Oregon. I posted a link to that ranch.

Apparently, the filly was sired by Abstract who now stands at Cross Country, but didn't stand there when Jordan's filly was conceived. The people at the ranch don't know who is the dam of the filly.

Jordan pulled a copy of Abstract's progeny record. He noticed an unnamed filly foaled in 2003 out of Pie Rise on the list, and he thought that might be his filly's dam. (Pie Rise has no foals listed for 2004 or 2005). Jordan then posted on the board for information on Pie Rise.

A Google search revealed Pie Rise went through an Oregon TB sale in the fall of 2001. Three people were shown as the buyers, including Allen Floyd of Othello, Washington. That is quite likely the same Allen Floyd of Othello, WA who owned 2004 Washington state Horse of the Year Demon Warlock. Mr. Floyd can't be too hard to track down.

A white pages search for a phone number for Allen Floyd of Othello, WA came up with one number. That number was passed along to Jordan in a PM.

Then someone posted the name of the breeder of the 2003 filly out of Pie Rise, and you posted a phone number for the breeder.

Jordan has been provided with some solid leads to pursue that could confirm (or rule out) Pie Rise as his filly's dam. But Jordan has not yet reported back about the outcome of the phone calls.

[BJ]

Linda,

You get an A+ for your excellent synopsis It all comes back to me now. Got a little muddied for a while. Thanks for the clarity break!

[Sysonby]

By "calling out" the people who do not participate in donation adoption (and instead sell to other breeders, trainers, or horsetraders like the feedlot man), you do the horses no favors. It scares people away from rescue and placement organizations, for fear they will be judged for the horse's condition, health, or for even sending them to the track at all. I know this because I talk to people. They fear being judged. How would you feel if your judgement caused someone to directly place a horse on the meat truck themselves, with no other chance for survival?

"

Thanks for your post. I wonder about that too and the possibility of unintended consequences. Remember that horse Juddmonte had that was found in a feedlot. There was tons of publicity and they got excoriated in every forum out there by every critic with a keyboard. TTimes even got involved. Then it turns out that they were just trying to find a clearly defective horse a good home with someone they trusted and then two owners later, he fell through the cracks.

First of all, given the volume at which they breed, that can't be the first horse they placed and I thought that the initial attempt spoke very well of them. They also stepped up when notified. But that all got lost in translation.

My thought after all the bad publicity for something which really wasn't their fault is why would they or any other big farm bother to do the right thing when this is the possible consequence. (and yes I think finding a home is the right thing). The temptation must be to just make the horse disappear so there is never a possibility of the armchair critics coming back at you. Is this really something good for the horse?

[AfleetAlex#1fan]

Ok heres the info:

1.) I got my filly from Scottie owner of Cross Country Ranch she said she was told her sire was Abstract.

2.)She said she was born in 2003 and got her at only a few months of age.

3.)She is a bay with quite a fae grey/white hairs around her tummy mostly sides.Its really not enough grey/white to be considered a roan just to let you know.She also has a star, Its like a white paint slash.

4.)No she has not had any foals,Scottie owned her at a few months of age and she never bred her.

5.) Look Above "No foals born"

6.)I ordered a sires crop analysis on the stallion Abstract and found Pie Rise in the 2003 the only unnamed filly without a color listed meaning she wasnt registered and my filly is registered.
"Lets work something out if you want a copy of the 2003 paperes we will see what we can do".

Thanks,
Jordan

[Pan Zareta]

[b]6.)I ordered a sires crop analysis on the stallion Abstract and found Pie Rise in the 2003 the only unnamed filly without a color listed meaning she wasnt registered and my filly is registered.

That reads like your filly IS registered, but the 2003 filly x Abstract - Pie Rise is not.

"Lets work something out if you want a copy of the 2003 paperes we will see what we can do".

Is that statement in quotations because someone said it to you? If so, that's the person with whom you ought to be having this discussion.

[AfleetAlex#1fan]

if its in the siires crop report thats just reporting a live foal it dosent have to be registered the Pie Rise filly of 2003 said unnamed and had no color listed meaning it was not registered.
Thanks,
Jordan

[halo]

Why are you assuming that your filly is registered?

[madelyn]

if its in the siires crop report thats just reporting a live foal it dosent have to be registered the Pie Rise filly of 2003 said unnamed and had no color listed meaning it was not registered.
Thanks,
Jordan

Sorry Jordan, that is not necessarily true. Unnamed does not necessarily mean unregistered.

I don't know what grade you are in, but let's look at this like a set/subset problem. Here are the rules:

A foal does not have to be named to be registered.

All foals must be registered in order to be named.

Thus, not all unnamed foals are unregistered. But not all registered foals are named. But all named foals are registered.

This can be expressed algebraically....

The Jockey Club issues papers on unnamed foals... in the case of your filly on her papers she would be described as follows:

"This is to certify that the (color) (sex) named ********* foaled (date) out of (dam) is duly registered......"

Later, when the foal is named, a name addendun is issued, in the form of a small certificate, that gets stapled to the corner of the papers. This allows purchasers of weanlings, yearlings, etc., the option to name the horse themselves, after purchase, without risking the superstitious act of changing the horse's name.

[halo]

Foals do not have to be registered to be named. All there has to have on file is a live foal report, and you can name a foal. I know, I do it all the time. If I think of a great name, and my foal is only a week old, as long as the Live Foal has been filed, you can name it.

[AfleetAlex#1fan]

Hello well Pie Rise`s 2003 filly by Abstract is not registered because the Jockey Club said before they sent me the Sire Crop Analysis on the stallion Abstract that the color of the foal wouldnt be registered if there wasnt a color listed for the foal then its not registered it as only a Live Foal Report thought I metioned it sorry if I didnt.
Thanks,
Jordan