Thoughts on a mare?

[fletch621]

http://www.pedigreequery.com/blumin+gold

I may have an opportunity to purchase this horse for a minimal price. I wanted to see what those on this board thought of a few things.... 1) Use as a broodmare (the mares 3rd dam looks just amazing to me, 4th dam to any offspring though ). 2) The owner/trainer has never in his life run a horse on turf... ever.... and to me the breeding of this mare indicates she may have a good run on turf (she has never even been tried on it). Any thoughts either way on this one?

Thanks,
Jason

[Sam]

Unremarkable first dam (Golden Advocate) who threw nothing but CHEAP sprinters -- not that surprising since she was pretty much a 7 furlong mare herself. Giving credit where credit is due, at least she was a stakes winner (even if it was a lone listed stake). Produce record may not be entirely her fault. Some of those studs she was bred to are ... peculiar. She may have done better if bred to a little bit better of a stallion. Gold Spring and Blumin Affair are ... eh .. and personally, I'd have ZERO interest in a Blumin Affair daughter (or colt for that matter).

Not sure where you're getting the idea that her ped screams turf unless you are only seeing that Dynaformer is her grandsire. Sire was straight up dirt. Broodie sire was primarily a dirt horse (though he did have some nice turf efforts) and the female family for 2 gens is all dirt sprinters.

Third dam is nice, but if you have to go to the third dam to find black type, shrug ... it's a crapshoot. Breeding to race, maybe you don't care. Breeding to sell, you're wasting your money. You'd have a cat page of: First dam -- first foal, Second Dam -- Listed stakes winner who threw multiple CHEAP bottom feeder claiming sprinters, Third Dam -- cheap sprinters with a single black type winner (see second dam).

I'd pass. There's nothing in the ped that screams it needs to be bred on. She's a cheap mare with a cheap race record who'd throw nothing but cheap foals. That's throwing good money away.

[fletch621]

Well, I did see Dynaformer yes, but the female family looks to be turf runners... looking at the 3rd dam, her foals, and the foals of her foals... seem to win a lot of turf races. I am the first to admit I am new as hell to this whole business, which side of the family do racers normally get their desire for turf or dirt from?

Thanks,
Jason

[Sam]

Well, I did see Dynaformer yes, but the female family looks to be turf runners... looking at the 3rd dam, her foals, and the foals of her foals... seem to win a lot of turf races.

That's fine but that third dam was English and most of the foals stayed in England; it's expected those branches would be turf runners.

I'm looking at the branch that made is here to the states -- the second and first dams - and they are all cheap dirt sprinters. It's a chess board and that was a knight's move. If you have to go back to the third dam then take a lateral step before you find what your looking for -- just not worth the effort.

The fact is that the third dam you find so enticing would become the 4th dam to anything you got from this mare, so it's really just too far back to matter. What's 'up close and personal' is nothing but cheap claimers who aren't even earning their training fees. Chances are, that's all she'd throw as well. She's a money pit.

Like I said, if you're breeding to race, maybe you don't care. If you're breeding to sell, chances are you aren't going to sell for enough to make it worth while, especially since she doesn't rate anything but a low level $2k regional sire at best.

JMO, but I'm a "what have you done for me lately" person when it comes to female families and this branch of that female family ain't done much. Couple that with a completely uninteresting Broodie sire ... she's just not worth it.

If they want anything more than $5k for her, they want too much and you can find better production families (not necessarily stakes horses, but horses that can at least earn their keep) for $5k

[fletch621]

Sam, I understand what you are talking about and I really understand the "what have you done for me lately" approach. It makes sense, obviously. My question is this.... where do you find the information on what a dams foals are doing race-wise without running extensive reports at $5 or more a pop? Would be really handy to know where to get that information. I would even be willing to pay a subscription to a service or whatever, but really don't want to pay out for every single darn report. I have seen mention of APRs or something in these forums, but do not know what that is or where to find it.

Thanks for the advice on this mare, I will be passing as I already have two broodmares, one a Beau Genius and the other an Our Gary (gotta start somewhere) and am breeding to race. The Beau Genius mare, She's Pure Genius, has been checked in foal to Blumin Affair for a May foal next year (I hope).

Thanks again,
Jason

[halo]

If one is considering buying a mare, $5 for a full comprehensive report on the mare's foals is nothing. I never understand how someone can consider buying a mare for a thousand, or several thousand, and take on the upkeep and breeding fees, and balk at a $5 report to find out what exactly youre buying.

[fletch621]

Halo, I am talking about when researching what mares to purchase, and in my case learning what kind of things to look for... I may be looking at a hundred or more mares just trying to figure stuff out, comparing, etc. If I get serious about a mare, or a claimer, or whatever, I will spend the money for the reports. I guess what I am missing is, how to look at the race records for the foals of a mare without having to purchase individual past performance reports for each one? For example... Sam said that this mare throws cheap claimers... where is that information coming from? Surely Sam didn't go out and purchase past performance reports for all this mares foals. That is why I asked about this APR thing I have seen mentioned. It seems like it may have some answers. I apologize for my ignorance... am new and wanting to learn.

Jason

[halo]

An APR would be a good start, at least would let you know if a mare is worth looking into a little closer.

[fletch621]

Cool. I will see what I can figure out from that.

Thanks,

Jason

[fletch621]

AHA! Took a guess that APR stood for American Produce Record based on how it comes up when talking about mares and breeding.... I see it is a cd-rom with all the info I have basically been looking for to give me at least a good indicator in which direction to look. This is what I was talking about.... I am perfectly happy paying money, even good money, for useful information.... but I don't like to be nickel and dimed to death paying for a hundred darn reports or whatever. Thanks for the info guys! This will get me started!

Thanks,
Jason

[halo]

You can sometimes find one a year or two old for sale, on eBay or other racing sites, even here, but if youre serious about looking for mares or anything else for that matter, you really need a current APR. Even current ones are only thru Dec. of the previous year, so you may need to delve further on a horse that interests you. You will probably find, once you have one, that it will stay in your computer and you'll refer to it over and over and over....

[Plentee]

If you decide to take her I believe she would cross real good with a Valid Appeal sire like valid expectations, valid wager, valid bidder, valid belfast, succesful appeal, littleexpectations, bl's appeal to name a few.

greg

[madelyn]

I have an '03 APR for sale, if you are interested... it of course is missing the past three years' data, but is at least a source of info and you can do quite a bit with it.

[Urai]

I wouldn't breed her. Nothing says its worth it you'll have more in vet bills and training then the offspring probably will make. Don't breed cheap horses to create more cheap horses.

Turf horses and cheap sprinters usually never mix, they aren't fast enough and can't go far enough.