Explosive Revival is a 5 year old soon to be OTTB we are considering buying as a potential hunter/eventer. He is correct, tall, with good bone and feet, pretty and seems very level-headed. I am always trying to learn more about TB lines and would really appreciate input on which members of his family he seems to take after.
He is on pedigreequerry, and is by Explosive Red (Explodent, Amelia Bearheart) and out of Luzianne Suzanne (Gothic Revival,out of a Pollinize, Dancing Dervish mare).
I don't see too many OTTB that are this correct, quiet and kind of old fashioned TB type, and I would love to know who he takes after so I can look for more. I'd also appreciate any caveat emptors!
Thanks!
Pedigree Gurus-- please weigh in
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knightsstar
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Explosive Red was indeed a small horse, but since you're dealing with an adult gelding, I'd say the horse on the ground is a lot more important than the pedigree on paper. He sounds like a really nice one.
"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis
As noted above, since you have the critter in front of you already then that is what is most important. Looking at pedigree is an excellent way for me to help "weed the field" if I am looking at large volumes of horses like Canter sites, on Equine.com, auctions etc.
Explosive Revival's top side/Explosive Red half: On his sire side is Nearco 4 generations back. Nearco tends to produce a good jump on the small/compact side. Damside is Bold Ruler 4 generations back (good general athletic talent, tend to be willful) and Ribot 4 generations back (also a good jump, tends to produce a bit rank on the tempement side). Nearco is in soooo many pedigrees that does not mean much. Plus it is 4 generations back. The other 2 of some note are also 4 generations back. Since there is nothing that knocks my socks off in the first 3 generations then this is not really a horse I would pick as my next sporthorse sire on paper.
The dam/ Luzianne Suzanne: On her sire side: Nothing of note. On her dam side: Buckpasser is 4 generations back and Native Dancer is 5 generations back. I love BP and Native D is a good but common presence. But at only 2 horses in the whole damside and those in the 4th and 5 generation......the dam is also one I would have passed on if going over horses on paper.
If I am looking on paper for a prospect I want to see at least one fantastic horse in the 3rd generation or better. If I have to go back to the 4th generation to find the known sporthorse talent I want to see LOTS of good names in that generation.
I do actually HAVE one nice mare that does not look that good on paper. Most of my mares were bought on pedigree and have good ones. One mare actually does not look all that good on paper. She is an OK looking mare. She has some minor confo flaws, but I would not go out in a field and say "gee I have to have her!". Her pedigree is also nuttin' special. Like your gelding, has Bold Ruler and Native Dancer 4 generations back and not a lot else to go on. So I would not have bought her on her papers either. I DID buy her because she had been bred twice before and I got to see her first 2 foals who were just fabulous looking. SO I bought her and bred her back to the same stallion that produced the first 2 fabulous looking kids.
Explosive Revival's top side/Explosive Red half: On his sire side is Nearco 4 generations back. Nearco tends to produce a good jump on the small/compact side. Damside is Bold Ruler 4 generations back (good general athletic talent, tend to be willful) and Ribot 4 generations back (also a good jump, tends to produce a bit rank on the tempement side). Nearco is in soooo many pedigrees that does not mean much. Plus it is 4 generations back. The other 2 of some note are also 4 generations back. Since there is nothing that knocks my socks off in the first 3 generations then this is not really a horse I would pick as my next sporthorse sire on paper.
The dam/ Luzianne Suzanne: On her sire side: Nothing of note. On her dam side: Buckpasser is 4 generations back and Native Dancer is 5 generations back. I love BP and Native D is a good but common presence. But at only 2 horses in the whole damside and those in the 4th and 5 generation......the dam is also one I would have passed on if going over horses on paper.
If I am looking on paper for a prospect I want to see at least one fantastic horse in the 3rd generation or better. If I have to go back to the 4th generation to find the known sporthorse talent I want to see LOTS of good names in that generation.
I do actually HAVE one nice mare that does not look that good on paper. Most of my mares were bought on pedigree and have good ones. One mare actually does not look all that good on paper. She is an OK looking mare. She has some minor confo flaws, but I would not go out in a field and say "gee I have to have her!". Her pedigree is also nuttin' special. Like your gelding, has Bold Ruler and Native Dancer 4 generations back and not a lot else to go on. So I would not have bought her on her papers either. I DID buy her because she had been bred twice before and I got to see her first 2 foals who were just fabulous looking. SO I bought her and bred her back to the same stallion that produced the first 2 fabulous looking kids.
Thanks, CAMOHN. Your comments are really helpful. It was because this is a nice individual that I was scratching my head a bit and asking for pedigree input from others. I had heard that Explodents can jump,and he looks alot like him. I know nada about his damsire. I had heard of Amelia Bearheart as a racehorse dam of course.
By the way, I love your young stallion!
By the way, I love your young stallion!
His Dam, LS, was a stakes winner and she made 59 starts, which shows good soundness and toughness, IMO. For a "nothing special" line, per some opinions posted so far, it IS interesting that the siblings that went on the auction block, didn't fare that badly. So there was something about them that brought a few shilling.
Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2003
Your gelding's siblings and race record through 2003.
LUZIANNE SUZANNE, 1988, Gothic Revival- Suzanne by Pollinize.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1996 Draftpick,g,Saratoga Six 2 5 0 0 0 0 ( 54) 0.00
North America 2 YO Record 2 0 0 0 0 ( 49)
North America Dirt Sprints 3 0 0 0 0 ( 54)
North America Dirt Routes 2 0 0 0 0 ( 48)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 0 ( 54)
DP = 5-2-11-0-6 DI = 1.09 CD = 0.00
1998 Seminole Avie,c,Lord Avie Unraced
DP = 3-6-5-0-6 DI = 1.35 CD = 0.00
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEESEP 1999 2400 $26,000 $24,500 ylg ( 2/ 4) $10,000
1999 Piece A Cake,f,Known Fact Unraced
DP = 9-3-8-0-6 DI = 1.60 CD = 0.35
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEESEP 2000 3046 $12,500 $18,563 ylg ( 4/ 8) $10,000
2000 Souvenir Suzy,f,Souvenir Copy Unraced
DP = 9-2-13-0-6 DI = 1.40 CD = 0.27
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEENOV 2000 1297 $22,000 $31,167 wlg ( 4/ 6) $20,000
KEESEP 2001 2809 $10,000 $30,052 ylg (16/27) $20,000
OBSJAN 2001 0466 $13,000 $30,052 ylg (14/27) $20,000
2001 Explosive Revival,g,Explosive Red
IN CANADA (since 2003) 1 2 0 0 0 1,252
DP = 2-1-4-0-7 DI = 0.56 CD = -0.64
SIRE 0.61 Spi, 171str, 29%2yo, 6%1st, 14%Mud/336sts, 10%Tf/356sts, AWD 6.5
DAM(sw) 0.00 Dpi, 2 2yostr/0wnr, 0%Mud/2sts, 0 Tfstr/0wnr, 1 Rtestr/0wnr, AWD 5.0
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
OBSJAN 2002 0261 $4,000 $2,943 ylg ( 4/14) $7,500
The Dam's race record and siblings:
Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2003
SUZANNE, 1980, Pollinize- La Charra by Dancing Dervish.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1988 LUZIANNE SUZANNE,f,Gothic Revival 5 59 13 11 9 167,999 ( 96) 2.45
North America 2 YO Record 6 2 0 2 17,425 ( 89)
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 0 ( 71)
North America Dirt Sprints 57 13 11 9 167,999 ( 96)
North America Dirt Routes 1 0 0 0 0 ( 66)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 6 1 2 1 34,810 ( 92)
DP = 0-2-6-0-12 DI = 0.33 CD = -1.10 AWD = 6.08
At 2 3rd Laurel Lane S. (R) (O) (40,000)
At 3 Won Fantasia S. (R) (O) (35,000)
At 4 2nd Victoria Handicap (R) (O) (50,000)
At 5 3rd Victoria H. (R) (O) (30,000)
1990 Caddo Charlie,c,Gothic Revival Unraced
DP = 0-2-6-0-12 DI = 0.33 CD = -1.10
1992 Lil Suzanne,f,Gothic Revival 1 2 0 0 0 0 ( 49) 0.00
North America Dirt Sprints 1 0 0 0 0 ( 49)
North America Dirt Routes 1 0 0 0 0
DP = 0-2-6-0-12 DI = 0.33 CD = -1.10
1993 Gothic Star,c,Gothic Revival 5 50 5 9 5 33,392 ( 82) 0.40
North America Turf Record 3 0 0 0 960 ( 75)
North America Dirt Sprints 40 5 8 5 29,492 ( 82)
North America Dirt Routes 7 0 1 0 2,940 ( 72)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 5 1 1 1 3,832 ( 82)
DP = 0-2-6-0-12 DI = 0.33 CD = -1.10 AWD = 6.20
1994 Suzie Annie,f,Gothic Revival 3 10 0 0 0 1,749 ( 65) 0.09
North America 2 YO Record 1 0 0 0 0 ( 41)
North America Dirt Sprints 10 0 0 0 1,749 ( 65)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 273 ( 45)
DP = 0-2-6-0-12 DI = 0.33 CD = -1.10
1997 Heather Ann,f,Heather's Prospect 5 50 6 10 5 135,883 ( 84) 1.49
North America 2 YO Record 2 0 0 0 1,020 ( 64)
North America Turf Record 3 0 0 0 630 ( 73)
North America Dirt Sprints 23 3 7 3 57,295 ( 83)
North America Dirt Routes 24 3 3 2 77,958 ( 84)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 3 0 2 0 4,200 ( 79)
DP = 4-2-11-0-1 DI = 1.77 CD = 0.44 AWD = 7.58
At 3 2nd Green Oaks Handicap (O) (25,000), 3rd Louisiana Breeders' Oaks
(R) (O) (66,850)
1998 Lil Suzeeque,f,Heather's Prospect 3 19 2 1 2 15,016 ( 79) 0.30
North America 2 YO Record 3 0 0 0 420 ( 58)
North America Turf Record 2 0 0 0 420 ( 61)
North America Dirt Sprints 11 1 1 1 5,504 ( 79)
North America Dirt Routes 6 1 0 1 9,092 ( 71)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 2 0 0 0 360 ( 60)
DP = 4-2-11-0-1 DI = 1.77 CD = 0.44 AWD = 7.00
1999 Bubbawontwork,c,Heather's Prospect 2 9 0 0 1 917 ( 68) 0.03
North America Turf Record 2 0 0 0 0 ( 60)
North America Dirt Sprints 3 0 0 1 638 ( 68)
North America Dirt Routes 4 0 0 0 279 ( 60)
DP = 4-2-11-0-1 DI = 1.77 CD = 0.44
Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2003
Your gelding's siblings and race record through 2003.
LUZIANNE SUZANNE, 1988, Gothic Revival- Suzanne by Pollinize.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1996 Draftpick,g,Saratoga Six 2 5 0 0 0 0 ( 54) 0.00
North America 2 YO Record 2 0 0 0 0 ( 49)
North America Dirt Sprints 3 0 0 0 0 ( 54)
North America Dirt Routes 2 0 0 0 0 ( 48)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 0 ( 54)
DP = 5-2-11-0-6 DI = 1.09 CD = 0.00
1998 Seminole Avie,c,Lord Avie Unraced
DP = 3-6-5-0-6 DI = 1.35 CD = 0.00
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEESEP 1999 2400 $26,000 $24,500 ylg ( 2/ 4) $10,000
1999 Piece A Cake,f,Known Fact Unraced
DP = 9-3-8-0-6 DI = 1.60 CD = 0.35
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEESEP 2000 3046 $12,500 $18,563 ylg ( 4/ 8) $10,000
2000 Souvenir Suzy,f,Souvenir Copy Unraced
DP = 9-2-13-0-6 DI = 1.40 CD = 0.27
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEENOV 2000 1297 $22,000 $31,167 wlg ( 4/ 6) $20,000
KEESEP 2001 2809 $10,000 $30,052 ylg (16/27) $20,000
OBSJAN 2001 0466 $13,000 $30,052 ylg (14/27) $20,000
2001 Explosive Revival,g,Explosive Red
IN CANADA (since 2003) 1 2 0 0 0 1,252
DP = 2-1-4-0-7 DI = 0.56 CD = -0.64
SIRE 0.61 Spi, 171str, 29%2yo, 6%1st, 14%Mud/336sts, 10%Tf/356sts, AWD 6.5
DAM(sw) 0.00 Dpi, 2 2yostr/0wnr, 0%Mud/2sts, 0 Tfstr/0wnr, 1 Rtestr/0wnr, AWD 5.0
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
OBSJAN 2002 0261 $4,000 $2,943 ylg ( 4/14) $7,500
The Dam's race record and siblings:
Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2003
SUZANNE, 1980, Pollinize- La Charra by Dancing Dervish.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1988 LUZIANNE SUZANNE,f,Gothic Revival 5 59 13 11 9 167,999 ( 96) 2.45
North America 2 YO Record 6 2 0 2 17,425 ( 89)
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 0 ( 71)
North America Dirt Sprints 57 13 11 9 167,999 ( 96)
North America Dirt Routes 1 0 0 0 0 ( 66)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 6 1 2 1 34,810 ( 92)
DP = 0-2-6-0-12 DI = 0.33 CD = -1.10 AWD = 6.08
At 2 3rd Laurel Lane S. (R) (O) (40,000)
At 3 Won Fantasia S. (R) (O) (35,000)
At 4 2nd Victoria Handicap (R) (O) (50,000)
At 5 3rd Victoria H. (R) (O) (30,000)
1990 Caddo Charlie,c,Gothic Revival Unraced
DP = 0-2-6-0-12 DI = 0.33 CD = -1.10
1992 Lil Suzanne,f,Gothic Revival 1 2 0 0 0 0 ( 49) 0.00
North America Dirt Sprints 1 0 0 0 0 ( 49)
North America Dirt Routes 1 0 0 0 0
DP = 0-2-6-0-12 DI = 0.33 CD = -1.10
1993 Gothic Star,c,Gothic Revival 5 50 5 9 5 33,392 ( 82) 0.40
North America Turf Record 3 0 0 0 960 ( 75)
North America Dirt Sprints 40 5 8 5 29,492 ( 82)
North America Dirt Routes 7 0 1 0 2,940 ( 72)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 5 1 1 1 3,832 ( 82)
DP = 0-2-6-0-12 DI = 0.33 CD = -1.10 AWD = 6.20
1994 Suzie Annie,f,Gothic Revival 3 10 0 0 0 1,749 ( 65) 0.09
North America 2 YO Record 1 0 0 0 0 ( 41)
North America Dirt Sprints 10 0 0 0 1,749 ( 65)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 273 ( 45)
DP = 0-2-6-0-12 DI = 0.33 CD = -1.10
1997 Heather Ann,f,Heather's Prospect 5 50 6 10 5 135,883 ( 84) 1.49
North America 2 YO Record 2 0 0 0 1,020 ( 64)
North America Turf Record 3 0 0 0 630 ( 73)
North America Dirt Sprints 23 3 7 3 57,295 ( 83)
North America Dirt Routes 24 3 3 2 77,958 ( 84)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 3 0 2 0 4,200 ( 79)
DP = 4-2-11-0-1 DI = 1.77 CD = 0.44 AWD = 7.58
At 3 2nd Green Oaks Handicap (O) (25,000), 3rd Louisiana Breeders' Oaks
(R) (O) (66,850)
1998 Lil Suzeeque,f,Heather's Prospect 3 19 2 1 2 15,016 ( 79) 0.30
North America 2 YO Record 3 0 0 0 420 ( 58)
North America Turf Record 2 0 0 0 420 ( 61)
North America Dirt Sprints 11 1 1 1 5,504 ( 79)
North America Dirt Routes 6 1 0 1 9,092 ( 71)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 2 0 0 0 360 ( 60)
DP = 4-2-11-0-1 DI = 1.77 CD = 0.44 AWD = 7.00
1999 Bubbawontwork,c,Heather's Prospect 2 9 0 0 1 917 ( 68) 0.03
North America Turf Record 2 0 0 0 0 ( 60)
North America Dirt Sprints 3 0 0 1 638 ( 68)
North America Dirt Routes 4 0 0 0 279 ( 60)
DP = 4-2-11-0-1 DI = 1.77 CD = 0.44
BJ: The OP notes that the horse is an OTT with an intended career as a hunter/jumper. The nothing special refers to pedigree geared towards those disciplines. There is very little correlation between racing ability and jumping ability so if the dam was a stakes winner or the siblings brought good auction prices for racing doesn't mean much in this case.
Take Gold Apollo for example
http://www.pedigreequery.com/gold+apollo
From a racing standpoint you would say he was about worthless at stud.......while it happens he was one of the top show hunters and sire of the same.........so the show hunter folks would go gaga over him.
The race folks will probably not be beating a path to one of the more popular up and coming hunter sires either
http://www.pedigreequery.com/fun+and+fancy+free
Last year Aly Dark
http://www.pedigreequery.com/aly+dark
topped the jumper sires lists.....his pedigree would probably hold more interest to race folks with recently successful racing stock in there though he himself is unraced.
Take Gold Apollo for example
http://www.pedigreequery.com/gold+apollo
From a racing standpoint you would say he was about worthless at stud.......while it happens he was one of the top show hunters and sire of the same.........so the show hunter folks would go gaga over him.
The race folks will probably not be beating a path to one of the more popular up and coming hunter sires either
http://www.pedigreequery.com/fun+and+fancy+free
Last year Aly Dark
http://www.pedigreequery.com/aly+dark
topped the jumper sires lists.....his pedigree would probably hold more interest to race folks with recently successful racing stock in there though he himself is unraced.
Hi camohn,
I was simply saying they "must have looked good" in the flesh, to have brought interest at the sales. To me, that is the first thing in either discipline. So, in attempting to "unravel" any mystery of what might be "hereditary" in the siblings....I found that they brought interest at the sales of note.
If he already shows a calm and willing demeanor...there seem to be a few good things going for him without even looking at his pedigree.
I was simply saying they "must have looked good" in the flesh, to have brought interest at the sales. To me, that is the first thing in either discipline. So, in attempting to "unravel" any mystery of what might be "hereditary" in the siblings....I found that they brought interest at the sales of note.
If he already shows a calm and willing demeanor...there seem to be a few good things going for him without even looking at his pedigree.
If he already shows a calm and willing demeanor...there seem to be a few good things going for him without even looking at his pedigree.
Yup....I agree with that...
AS to whom the gelding favors...hard to sya for sure without a picture but since the sire is small/hot and the gelding is big/quiet the dam side is probably a good guess.....as well as the fact that sounds like a Buckpasser "type" which is the damside.
Yup....I agree with that...
camohn wrote:As noted above, since you have the critter in front of you already then that is what is most important. Looking at pedigree is an excellent way for me to help "weed the field" if I am looking at large volumes of horses like Canter sites, on Equine.com, auctions etc.
AS to whom the gelding favors...hard to sya for sure without a picture but since the sire is small/hot and the gelding is big/quiet the dam side is probably a good guess.....as well as the fact that sounds like a Buckpasser "type" which is the damside.