Just Curious

[casallc]

It seems to me that there are miracles happening in Kentucky of the magnitude of the Virgin birth. When a horse live covers over 200 mares between Feb 15th and July 1st and gets a 75 to 80% live foal rate I would say that is somewhat unbelievable. Considering that mares have the lowest birth rate of all domesticated animals. Considering that the big gun horses only give one jump per cycle and that is by appointment, I find it astounding that they can get results like this:

Giant's Causeway – 244 Mares bred, 178 Live foals, 72.9% Birth rate.
Lion Heart – 233 Mares bred, 187 Live foals, 80.2% Birth rate.
Chapel Royal – 222 Mares bred, 175 Live foals, 78.8% Birth rate.
Fusaichi Pegasus – 214 Mares bred, 187 Live foals, 79.9 Birth rate.

Those are figures like would be obtained by artificial insemination, which is more efficient and less taxing on the stud. We all know, of course, that thoroughbreds are ALL bred by live cover, don’t we? I wonder why one would have a better chance of getting into the vault at Ft. Knox than in the breeding barn at one of the big farms? I guess I should have asked John Williams at Colorado State when he had his breeding crew from Spendthrift at the A. I. Course in 1981.

[Skipitgirl]

Giants Causeway would cover roughly 1.8 mares EVERY day for the breeding season with 244 mares being covered. Wow. How do they coordinate all the mares coming in heat exactly when they want them to so he doesnt breed, say, 4 mares on one day, skip a day then breed 2 mares etc? Or what happens if 10 mares are ready on any given day?

[casallc]

Regumate! In a word, but it is not all that fool proof especially early in the season and if the mare has not been under lights for about 60 days. The answer to your question is: they are either working these horses to death or they are AI'ing mares.

[hunt_jump]

Is the TB industry allowed to use timed ovulation with P&E like some of the sporthorse breeder have gone to?

[CA Michael]

I am CERTAIN, absolutely CERTAIN, that NO FARM uses Artificial Insemination to allow for larger books of mares. CERTAIN!

[jagger]

"I wonder why one would have a better chance of getting into the vault at Ft. Know than in the breeding barn at one of the big farms?"

Casallc

Many, but not all, of the big farms will allow viewing in the breeding barn. I can't remember all the ones that I have been to but one was Gainesway.

[magic code]

They do videotape every cover in KY.

However, I know of a stallion who was collected and AI'd to mares. Disgruntled workers will spill beans...

[madelyn]

I saw my mares covered last year, no videotaping.. at Darley at Jonabell, and Darby Dan.

And yes, some of the biggest farms are the ones doing AI. And it does get out. One reason I wouldn't consider some farms is that if they get caught, the foals cannot be registered. Beyond the simple point of trying to recover the stud fee if it all blows up, a year of my mare's life would have been wasted.

[TrueColours]

Back when I was involved in the AI fiasco with GoldHope Farm, with the 3 palomino and 1 cremello colts having been conceived via AI, I had many a discussion with the then registrar - Buddy Bishop - as I was involved with the colt that I unknowingly bought from Goldhope Farm, who did the AI on their mares and then I ended up with a colt entering his 3 year old year whose papers got yanked along with the 3 others ...

He advised that they generally get 5-10 phone calls or emails per DAY about AI practices going on at TB farms all over North America, from workers, to mare owners, to ??? people

He advised that they dont have a HOPE of investigating each and every claim, so they call and advise the farms who get a lot of fingers pointed at them (not exactly sure WHY they would call and WARN them???) and advise that they have had a lot of phone calls/emails about their "breeding practices" and that the next time they are in their area, they will be stopping in - unannounced - to check things out for themselves

So - not exactly sure what that will tell anyone, and do only the BIG farms get these type of "warning calls" and the smaller ones get someone showing up by surprise, but when all of this was going on in early 2001, thats what I was told ...

So - you'd think with 5-10 calls a day, where there's smoke - there is fire - right?!

[casallc]

I am CERTAIN, absolutely CERTAIN, that NO FARM uses Artificial Insemination to allow for larger books of mares. CERTAIN! :wink:

Unless you are there for every breeding you cannot be CERTAIN. You might be confidant but not CERTAIN.

Sorry, I did not see the wink on your post.

[CA Michael]

Casall, perhaps you didn't see the most important part of that post:

[casallc]

I saw my mares covered last year, no videotaping.. at Darley at Jonabell, and Darby Dan.

And yes, some of the biggest farms are the ones doing AI. And it does get out. One reason I wouldn't consider some farms is that if they get caught, the foals cannot be registered. Beyond the simple point of trying to recover the stud fee if it all blows up, a year of my mare's life would have been wasted.

I will wager that none of the horses you bred to covered over 200 mares. I never had a problem with owners if they would keep their mouths shut and stay out of the way. That is, unless I was AI'ing a TB mare to a TB stud.

[casallc]

Casall, perhaps you didn't see the most important part of that post: :wink:

You're right, at first all I saw was naivety but after seing the wink, after my post I see the humor. Again apologies.

[casallc]

Is the TB industry allowed to use timed ovulation with P&E like some of the sporthorse breeder have gone to?

In a word, yes.