http://breeding.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=36642
Looks like Redoubt's Choice has a bit of a boo boo and vets are recommending he shut things down a bit early just to be safe. 11 mares are getting sent elsewhere at Arrowfield, with Sunline going to Hussonet. Alinghi is going to Hussonet as well.
How do you all feel about those pairings vs the previous matches?
Sunline, Alinghi left at the altar
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Sunline, Alinghi left at the altar
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana"
Re: Sunline, Alinghi left at the altar
Heidilady wrote:How do you all feel about those pairings vs the previous matches?
The Australian breeding industry tends to "Jump on the bandwagon" with stallions. There is rarely any true "Matching" of pedigrees. Generally a stallion is the 'flavour of the month' and everyone who can afford the fee sends their mare to him.
Personally I think there are many better bred & more preferable stallions to Redoutes choice and I think that this may be a good thing in the long run.
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arganaut
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RC
Redoute's has only a minor muscle strain and has been put on ice due to his incalculable value. He also has 30 mares flying in from the northern hemisphere to be served early next year as is the grand plan to make him an international stallion.
He is definately the flavour of the month and has been for some years now. He first stood in 2000 for A$33,000 and his fee is now an Australian all-time record of A$275,000. He has the results to back it up with already 27 individual stakes winners.
Alinghi is by a grandson of Northern Dancer and son of Fairy King, Encosta de Lago, and a full sister to Alinghi sold this year for a new Australian all-time record for a filly of A$2.6m. So Redoute's a great grandson of Northern Dancer through Danzig and his son Danehill, would give plenty of Nearctic to the pedigree so I guess it just depends if you are a fan of this or not.
Sunline, similarly to Redoute's Choice's sireline, is a great grand-daughter of Danzig through Green Desert and Desert Sun.
The replacement Hussonet is no slouch, a 6-time Champion Sire in Chile and 5-time Champion 2YO Sire as well, has already produced a stakeswinner from his first runners in Australia. Hussonet carries the extraordinary lifetime statistic of siring 22% stakeswinners to runners and 86% winners to runners.
All in all, the boss of Arrowfield, John Messara, where both Redoute's Choice and Hussonet stand is a breeding guru and one couldn't doubt his choice for these two Champion racemares, Alinghi and Sunline. If the progeny end up in the sale ring, going on recent results, you will need plenty to buy them!
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He is definately the flavour of the month and has been for some years now. He first stood in 2000 for A$33,000 and his fee is now an Australian all-time record of A$275,000. He has the results to back it up with already 27 individual stakes winners.
Alinghi is by a grandson of Northern Dancer and son of Fairy King, Encosta de Lago, and a full sister to Alinghi sold this year for a new Australian all-time record for a filly of A$2.6m. So Redoute's a great grandson of Northern Dancer through Danzig and his son Danehill, would give plenty of Nearctic to the pedigree so I guess it just depends if you are a fan of this or not.
Sunline, similarly to Redoute's Choice's sireline, is a great grand-daughter of Danzig through Green Desert and Desert Sun.
The replacement Hussonet is no slouch, a 6-time Champion Sire in Chile and 5-time Champion 2YO Sire as well, has already produced a stakeswinner from his first runners in Australia. Hussonet carries the extraordinary lifetime statistic of siring 22% stakeswinners to runners and 86% winners to runners.
All in all, the boss of Arrowfield, John Messara, where both Redoute's Choice and Hussonet stand is a breeding guru and one couldn't doubt his choice for these two Champion racemares, Alinghi and Sunline. If the progeny end up in the sale ring, going on recent results, you will need plenty to buy them!
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Last edited by arganaut on Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I much prefer the matching of Sunline with Hussonet than with Redoute's Choice, as it is not so heavy in Northern Dancer inbreeding, and adds the Nashua linebreeding and the Raise a Native cross. However, Alinghi x Hussonet produces a foal that is 2 x 5 Mr. Prospector, and not through proven sound branches of the family. I bet there are better choices out there, but maybe not at the same stud farm.
Rocking H
Re: RC
arganaut wrote:All in all, the boss of Arrowfield, John Messara, where both Redoute's Choice and Hussonet stand is a breeding guru and one couldn't doubt his choice for these two Champion racemares, Alinghi and Sunline. If the progeny end up in the sale ring, going on recent results, you will need plenty to buy them!
Perhaps by our, rather low, Australian standards Messara is considered a "guru" but he is no where near the class of John Magnier from Coolmore. Messara is nothing more than a fast talking business man with a big bank balance.
Magnier would take a booking for a mare to visit a particular stallion and when it came off the horsebox he would tell the owners which stallion it would be visiting and much of the time it was not the one they had booked too. His knowlege of performance, pedigrees and comformation was unparrallelled. By comparision Messara is a rank amateur!!!
Mike wrote:That's a BIG statement wymanda, and one that I disagree with. Messara does a very good job.
Magnier has not even been to Australia, so does he pick the matings by photograph?
They are both very good commercial operators.
Don't get me wrong, I love this country but I find your comments so very "Australian"!
The world breeding scene is waaaaaaaaaaay bigger than this little continent and there is no way I would consider Messara to be a world player. He's had a few good stallions but, in the class of John Magnier & Sir Patrick Hogan, NO WAY.
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arganaut
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Back in the 90s there was a stallion Magnier and Messara bought together after his racing career from Sheik Mohammed.
It shuttled to Arrowfield Stud, Australia and Messara saw his 'unlimited' potential and wanted the stallion to stop shuttling as he said "to eliminate the risks involved." (The reason he won't shuttle Redoute's Choice).
But Coolmore wanted this stallion to keep shuttling so it was decided someone would have to sell their half.
The two Studs came together with a negotiator going from room to room with the new offer going up and up. Messara would go an extra $50,000 and Magnier via phone but with Coolmore representatives there, would match him. Messara by his own admission "didn't have the money to keep going" and sadly had to let the stallion go.
In an interview on Sky Channel Messara said "I was naive in those negotiations as I only made Coolmore more interested in retaining the stallion."
So who was the stallion Messara so desperately sought to retain outright ownership that when he could not afford him he was so despondent he considered selling up Arrowfield and leaving the industry?
Answer - Danehill (Nine times Champion Australian Sire)
I have also spoken to Sir Patrick many times and on one occassion a few years back I asked him if he could currently stand any stallions outside of his own stud, who would they be?
He said without hesitation, "Snippets and Flying Spur".
Both stallions stand/stood (Snippets now deceased) at John Messara's Arrowfield Stud.
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It shuttled to Arrowfield Stud, Australia and Messara saw his 'unlimited' potential and wanted the stallion to stop shuttling as he said "to eliminate the risks involved." (The reason he won't shuttle Redoute's Choice).
But Coolmore wanted this stallion to keep shuttling so it was decided someone would have to sell their half.
The two Studs came together with a negotiator going from room to room with the new offer going up and up. Messara would go an extra $50,000 and Magnier via phone but with Coolmore representatives there, would match him. Messara by his own admission "didn't have the money to keep going" and sadly had to let the stallion go.
In an interview on Sky Channel Messara said "I was naive in those negotiations as I only made Coolmore more interested in retaining the stallion."
So who was the stallion Messara so desperately sought to retain outright ownership that when he could not afford him he was so despondent he considered selling up Arrowfield and leaving the industry?
Messara is nothing more than a fast talking business man with a big bank balance.
Answer - Danehill (Nine times Champion Australian Sire)
I have also spoken to Sir Patrick many times and on one occassion a few years back I asked him if he could currently stand any stallions outside of his own stud, who would they be?
He said without hesitation, "Snippets and Flying Spur".
Both stallions stand/stood (Snippets now deceased) at John Messara's Arrowfield Stud.
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Last edited by arganaut on Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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arganaut
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wymanda wrote:Wasn't there also similar issues with Kenmare?
Wasn't aware of any issues with Kenmare.
Born 5/5/1975. First stood France 1979. First stood in Australia 1988 at Arrowfield. Shuttled to Ireland 1992-1994. Retired 1997. Died on 7/2/2001.
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Last edited by arganaut on Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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arganaut
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jm
Article in today's Sydney Morning Herald -
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LIGHTNING RESPONSE by John Holloway
It is doubtful if any person in Australia knows more than Arrowfield boss John Messara about the hugely successful "freshman" stallion Hussonet, the sire entrusted with the covering of Sunline in the 2007 breeding season.
Messara has done plenty of homework on Hussonet's overseas offspring with the former Chilean stallion having sired more than 100 stakes-winners in the northern hemisphers.
He was at Tuesday's Rosehill barrier trials to see the early Magic Millions favourite, the David Hayes-trained Husson Lightning, contest a 900-metre heat.
"I spoke with (Hayes's) stable jockey Craig Williams on Monday and told him that all the studies I have done regarding Hussonet clearly show that his progeny perform best when they are ridden off the speed," Messara explained.
The message must have struck a cord with Hayes as Williams, who made a special trip to Rosehill to ride four horses prepared by the trainer in their hit-outs, rode Husson Lightning from behind, restraining him back near the tail of the field until the turn, then unleashing a terrific sprint to win running away. He beat another Hussonet colt, trained by Tim Martin, called Werd.
Werd set the pace in the trial and it will be interesting to see if Martin heeds Messara's advice and has him ridden off the speed next time he appears.
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