Good Morning everyone,
I was over in the buying/selling section. There's a post about a stallion season auction, and followed the link.
A couple of you recommended I try to get my mare to either Storm Boot or Tiznow. I think this might be a great opportunity, as both are on the list.
My question is: Which would be the best match for her (Pluma Roja)?? She is tall (16.3), and we would not be keeping the foal.
Thank you for any insights you can give.
Stallion Comparison - Storm Boot and Tiznow
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
I didn't see the other thread that recommended Storm Boot and Tiznow for your mare and, being a commercial breeder, I tend to look at things differently than many of the people on this board. But my first thought when I read your question is that you have chosen to look at two very dissimilar stallions and that if you consider some basic questions about your preferences, you may be able to come up with your own answer.
How much do you want to spend? One of these stallions costs 15K (Storm Boot), the other 30K (Tiznow)
Are you looking for a proven producer of runners (Storm Boot) or the enhanced marketability of a new sire (Tiznow?) Bear in mind though that since Tiznow already has yearlings in 2004, this isn't a good year to try and trade on his newness.
How do you feel about pedigree? There's a big difference between these two. Storm Boot is by Storm Cat o/o a Mr. P mare. Tiznow is by Cee's Tizzy o/o a Seattle Song mare.
How important is race record to you? Tiznow won the Breeders Cup Classic twice. Storm Boot didn't.
What about size? One of these stallions is very large (Tiznow), the other on the small side (Storm Boot)
I could keep going but you probably see what I mean. Choose the things that are important to you in breeding your mare, and the answer should fall into place.
How much do you want to spend? One of these stallions costs 15K (Storm Boot), the other 30K (Tiznow)
Are you looking for a proven producer of runners (Storm Boot) or the enhanced marketability of a new sire (Tiznow?) Bear in mind though that since Tiznow already has yearlings in 2004, this isn't a good year to try and trade on his newness.
How do you feel about pedigree? There's a big difference between these two. Storm Boot is by Storm Cat o/o a Mr. P mare. Tiznow is by Cee's Tizzy o/o a Seattle Song mare.
How important is race record to you? Tiznow won the Breeders Cup Classic twice. Storm Boot didn't.
What about size? One of these stallions is very large (Tiznow), the other on the small side (Storm Boot)
I could keep going but you probably see what I mean. Choose the things that are important to you in breeding your mare, and the answer should fall into place.
One thing to consider is that Storm Boot started out with quite a low stud fee, and has been on the increase since he has thrown quite nice runners. This, if it continues, will impact the value of the offspring, and your mare's pedigree is a nice match because of the Crimson Satan line there. Tiznow is as yet unproven so his fee could increase or decrease in the future. But you really have to consider conformation and if you are thinking of spending $15K-$30K (or whatever the auction number is) a trip to see the two boys in person should also be part of the plan..
Gizmo, if you are really considering spending that much money on a mare with little black type on her page and want to sell the foal, you will want to cover your bases. Her foal may bring less than you hope, regardless of the sire's popularity, so you ought to consider foaling in a state that has good breeders' premiums. If the resulting foal becomes a good runner, you can reap the rewards over time, even if the initial sales price is not profitable.
In Kentucky, some sires I like with her "include" Include, Belong to Me, Ecton Park, Vicar, Doneraile Court, Yankee Gentleman. Storm Cat's sons have Crimson Satan through Terlingua and Mt. Livermore through Flama Ardiente, Majestic Prince carries the Alibhai. I would try to get a miler or sprinter/miler, since your mare carries a lot of stamina. You want your foal to make people who see it want to look twice, so try to avoid conformational problems. A nice potentially profitable inexpensive stallion in Texas that might work is Authenticate.
In Kentucky, some sires I like with her "include" Include, Belong to Me, Ecton Park, Vicar, Doneraile Court, Yankee Gentleman. Storm Cat's sons have Crimson Satan through Terlingua and Mt. Livermore through Flama Ardiente, Majestic Prince carries the Alibhai. I would try to get a miler or sprinter/miler, since your mare carries a lot of stamina. You want your foal to make people who see it want to look twice, so try to avoid conformational problems. A nice potentially profitable inexpensive stallion in Texas that might work is Authenticate.
Rocking H
Hi Gizmo,
My opinion is that Tiznow is the better match-up on paper, but I tend to think it might be overbreeding and you might need a little more speed with this mare (although I might be wrong) than Tiznow will likely provide.
Madelyn is right on about seeing them both in person if you're seriously thinking about spending that much money.
Another possibility might be Belong To Me; Danzig and His Majesty got Danehill and Exclusive Native's son Affirmed crossed good with His Majesty also. The problem is intergrating the Papila blood in this mare and that forces you to either go deep and take a lot of time or go with either Tiznow or a Storm Cat son or maybe a Mt Livermore son.
If you do go with a Storm Cat son, I think it should be one with Hail To Reason or Blushing Groom on the damline.
The key might be Whitesburg, I think we could find a common nick between him and the Soaring femfam of Mehmet.
Whitesburg and Blushing Groom combined in GIW Cuvee, hmm. (BG and the Miss Swapsco line of Mehmet combined in Rahy and Ashado).
Whitesburg and Nijinsky also combined in Cuvee.
Whitesburg and HTR combined in the dam of JAP-GIW Cafe Olympus.
Giant's Causeway's full brother Tumblebrutus is standing his first year at stud in Kentucky and he combines Storm Cat, Hail To Reason, Blushing Groom, and a semi-distant return of Miss Swapsco.
On the other hand, it might be better to go with a proven stallion like Peaks And Valleys, who brings in Blushing Groom and Crimson Satan with crosses in damside of Val De Loir, a stallion who crossed Brantome and Tetretema like Whitesburg's dam Mirabio, and Obedient, a mare crossing Blandford with Gainsborough like Pluma Roja's 2nd damsire High Bandit.
-llbean
My opinion is that Tiznow is the better match-up on paper, but I tend to think it might be overbreeding and you might need a little more speed with this mare (although I might be wrong) than Tiznow will likely provide.
Madelyn is right on about seeing them both in person if you're seriously thinking about spending that much money.
Another possibility might be Belong To Me; Danzig and His Majesty got Danehill and Exclusive Native's son Affirmed crossed good with His Majesty also. The problem is intergrating the Papila blood in this mare and that forces you to either go deep and take a lot of time or go with either Tiznow or a Storm Cat son or maybe a Mt Livermore son.
If you do go with a Storm Cat son, I think it should be one with Hail To Reason or Blushing Groom on the damline.
The key might be Whitesburg, I think we could find a common nick between him and the Soaring femfam of Mehmet.
Whitesburg and Blushing Groom combined in GIW Cuvee, hmm. (BG and the Miss Swapsco line of Mehmet combined in Rahy and Ashado).
Whitesburg and Nijinsky also combined in Cuvee.
Whitesburg and HTR combined in the dam of JAP-GIW Cafe Olympus.
Giant's Causeway's full brother Tumblebrutus is standing his first year at stud in Kentucky and he combines Storm Cat, Hail To Reason, Blushing Groom, and a semi-distant return of Miss Swapsco.
On the other hand, it might be better to go with a proven stallion like Peaks And Valleys, who brings in Blushing Groom and Crimson Satan with crosses in damside of Val De Loir, a stallion who crossed Brantome and Tetretema like Whitesburg's dam Mirabio, and Obedient, a mare crossing Blandford with Gainsborough like Pluma Roja's 2nd damsire High Bandit.
-llbean