Trainer "deals"?
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Blue feather
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Trainer "deals"?
I'm a breeder in PA with 4 mares. My first crop will hopefully be racing next year as 2yo's. I'm trying to find a situation with a trainer who's willing to work with me. I have time and energy and a willingness to do what is needed to succeed. I have some experience working at the track. I have invested alot of money in my farm and my current stock and have 2 proven mares and 2 mares that have potenial. I would like to have a situation were I have little or no "day rate" and work as a team with a trainer. I currently have an offer to give up 50% ownership in lieu of all training expenses including vet..I keep breeders $ but split purse $ and owners state bred $. With little experience in "deals", I this a good offer? Does anybody have similar situations that can give me some feedback?Any trainers out there looking for a situation like this?
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MidwestTrainer
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Yes, you've put money into them, but I don't think you are going to find a trainer to foot all expenses for 50%. Too much risk. If you want to make the agreement when they are already racing, you could probably find somebody, if they were running well.
I assume you want this deal to start as soon as they are ready to start the breaking process? A lot of horses don't make it to a race, or ever win, what are you willing to offer the trainer if that happens? When they race do you want say in what level they race at?
I assume you want this deal to start as soon as they are ready to start the breaking process? A lot of horses don't make it to a race, or ever win, what are you willing to offer the trainer if that happens? When they race do you want say in what level they race at?
Re: Trainer "deals"?
Blue feather wrote:I'm a breeder in PA with 4 mares. My first crop will hopefully be racing next year as 2yo's. I'm trying to find a situation with a trainer who's willing to work with me. I have time and energy and a willingness to do what is needed to succeed. I have some experience working at the track. I have invested alot of money in my farm and my current stock and have 2 proven mares and 2 mares that have potenial. I would like to have a situation were I have little or no "day rate" and work as a team with a trainer. I currently have an offer to give up 50% ownership in lieu of all training expenses including vet..I keep breeders $ but split purse $ and owners state bred $. With little experience in "deals", I this a good offer? Does anybody have similar situations that can give me some feedback?Any trainers out there looking for a situation like this?
If you have an offer like this on unbroke, unstarted two year olds, well it sounds too good to be true.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
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bcassidy
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Blue feather----I recommend you stay away from any deals. I have never seen one to work out well and somebody is always unhappy with the arrangement.
Why not sell 1-3 of the horses and keep and race 1 or 2 with the money you make from selling the few you can sell. This would be a much better situation, PA breds are very desireable right now so you shouldn't have any problems selling them.
If selling them doesn't work then I would try a leasing situation with somebody/trainer(s) where you are out of all day to day involvement and expense. They keep 100% of the purse money---- you keep the owners and breeders award money. The horses can't be entered into a claiming race without your approval and if you approve and lose the horse in a claim---- you keep the claim money, owners award and breeders award money---they keep any purse money. After their racing career is over you keep the horses for breeding purposes.
This would be a much cleaner situation and still gives you and the other party enough control without the complications of a very messy partnership as originally proposed by you. That one has trouble written all over it.
Why not sell 1-3 of the horses and keep and race 1 or 2 with the money you make from selling the few you can sell. This would be a much better situation, PA breds are very desireable right now so you shouldn't have any problems selling them.
If selling them doesn't work then I would try a leasing situation with somebody/trainer(s) where you are out of all day to day involvement and expense. They keep 100% of the purse money---- you keep the owners and breeders award money. The horses can't be entered into a claiming race without your approval and if you approve and lose the horse in a claim---- you keep the claim money, owners award and breeders award money---they keep any purse money. After their racing career is over you keep the horses for breeding purposes.
This would be a much cleaner situation and still gives you and the other party enough control without the complications of a very messy partnership as originally proposed by you. That one has trouble written all over it.
Last edited by bcassidy on Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
best regards Brendan
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Laurierace
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Any trainer worth a damn would run from that arrangement like their hair was on fire. If you do find someone willing to go along with it, I suggest that you run the other way yourself. Sorry, you get what you pay for. You want to pay for nothing......and I guarantee you that you will get your money's worth.
You might be able to get someone decent to go along with the deal once they are racing or very close to it, but even then its a crap shoot. No offense, but if you aren't willing for whatever reason to financially back your horses, I don't see why anyone else would want to either.
You might be able to get someone decent to go along with the deal once they are racing or very close to it, but even then its a crap shoot. No offense, but if you aren't willing for whatever reason to financially back your horses, I don't see why anyone else would want to either.
Blue-
I agree generally with what is being recommended buyt deals can work out. Its m,ost important that you first find a trainer that you are comfortable with. You need to make sure that you are able to communicate freely and easily, and more importantly, on a friendly basis. I agree that some trainers are "vet friendly" but initial conversations indicating the "length of that rein" can help with that.
That said, I have gone in on just such a deal with one of my trainers. I purchased the (ready to go) 2yo, and they immediately got half...but were responsible for all fees going forward. We're having fun bringing our horse up to the races....
So...if you're going to enter in such a deal, the key is to know, and like, your trainer.
Good luck.
I agree generally with what is being recommended buyt deals can work out. Its m,ost important that you first find a trainer that you are comfortable with. You need to make sure that you are able to communicate freely and easily, and more importantly, on a friendly basis. I agree that some trainers are "vet friendly" but initial conversations indicating the "length of that rein" can help with that.
That said, I have gone in on just such a deal with one of my trainers. I purchased the (ready to go) 2yo, and they immediately got half...but were responsible for all fees going forward. We're having fun bringing our horse up to the races....
So...if you're going to enter in such a deal, the key is to know, and like, your trainer.
Good luck.
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Blue feather
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Laurierace
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TBLADY
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Hey Blue feather...nice to see you again.
There is nothing cheap about this business...there is no doubt. I have heard people say I can get a horse broke for Blah blah or trained for blah blah blah which is ususaly peanuts...thats fine and dandy but you have to rememebr you are trusting your horses, your professional athlete with someone on a BUDGET! Yes we have all been in tight spots where money is concerned. But as someone already mentioned...sell off one or two and invest in your horses future wisely.
you can get some nice deals with some trainers but for the most part...good trainers who are experienced and well established rarely work on deals. You might find an up and coming trainer who needs horses to run to keep stalls, but in these cases the horses have to be running already or very clsoe to it. Some of the cheaper claimer tracks you might be able to find a deal.
As Laurie said. You generally get what you pay for in the long haul.
There is nothing cheap about this business...there is no doubt. I have heard people say I can get a horse broke for Blah blah or trained for blah blah blah which is ususaly peanuts...thats fine and dandy but you have to rememebr you are trusting your horses, your professional athlete with someone on a BUDGET! Yes we have all been in tight spots where money is concerned. But as someone already mentioned...sell off one or two and invest in your horses future wisely.
you can get some nice deals with some trainers but for the most part...good trainers who are experienced and well established rarely work on deals. You might find an up and coming trainer who needs horses to run to keep stalls, but in these cases the horses have to be running already or very clsoe to it. Some of the cheaper claimer tracks you might be able to find a deal.
As Laurie said. You generally get what you pay for in the long haul.
Fins to the Left....
Suggest you put your marketing skills into finding partners that are willing to put expense funds in a LLC in exchange for a interest in your horses. You can be themanaging partner if you have the experience.
If these are PABRED horses the potential breeder's incentives should motivate you to make some attractive deals. Remember a good edeal is when EVERYONE benefits and EVERYONE is happy.
griff
If these are PABRED horses the potential breeder's incentives should motivate you to make some attractive deals. Remember a good edeal is when EVERYONE benefits and EVERYONE is happy.
griff
"We has met the enemy and he is us" [Pogo]
Re: Trainer "deals"?
Blue feather wrote:I'm a breeder in PA with 4 mares. My first crop will hopefully be racing next year as 2yo's. I'm trying to find a situation with a trainer who's willing to work with me. I have time and energy and a willingness to do what is needed to succeed. I have some experience working at the track. I have invested alot of money in my farm and my current stock and have 2 proven mares and 2 mares that have potenial. I would like to have a situation were I have little or no "day rate" and work as a team with a trainer. I currently have an offer to give up 50% ownership in lieu of all training expenses including vet..I keep breeders $ but split purse $ and owners state bred $. With little experience in "deals", I this a good offer? Does anybody have similar situations that can give me some feedback?Any trainers out there looking for a situation like this?
HA HA HA HA HA, Good Luck!
If you have an offer in hand, the next thing I would suggest is check this individual out. Check out experience, trainer standings, win percentages, how they care for the horses, talk to former clients, etc. Is this a reputable trainer? Also, I think you need to sit down and do some hard talking, what if type scenarios before jumping in. You are granting 50% interest in your foal crop, as well as a year in the life of your mare's produce records. You have already made a substantial investment in your farm and your mares. Once you give ownership, if you don't like something, you can't vote with your feet. Also, how will your partnership be dissolved? What if a horse gets hurt? What if a horse needs surgery? In the event you do not agree, who gets the deciding vote?
That said, of do know of harmonious partnership deals, but in each case they had a pre-established owner-trainer paying relationship before they did breeding and racing partnerships. You might want to consider the paying route for a while before committing to a deal.
That said, of do know of harmonious partnership deals, but in each case they had a pre-established owner-trainer paying relationship before they did breeding and racing partnerships. You might want to consider the paying route for a while before committing to a deal.
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nrhareiner
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Well I can not say about racing and the track however I can say that I have worked deals like this many times with my reiners and even my H/J horses.
An NRHA Open leval aged even reiner takes about 2+ years to train then you start showing. I have a mare up at the trainers now who has been there over 3+ years and I have nothing into her. She has several NRHA affiliate year end awards and NRHA earnings and AQHA points.
My H/J prospect stays here and the person working her comes here and traines and then once finished will show her.
Each deal is a bit differnt but the one thing they have in comon is that it is costing me nothing in training cost and the reining mare cost me nothing at all.
Deals can be made. However I would sugest that you sit down and really talk to the trainer. Make sure you both the the same golls in mind and are on the same page. Also use a good attorney and have a good contract with everything spelled out clearly.
Heidi
An NRHA Open leval aged even reiner takes about 2+ years to train then you start showing. I have a mare up at the trainers now who has been there over 3+ years and I have nothing into her. She has several NRHA affiliate year end awards and NRHA earnings and AQHA points.
My H/J prospect stays here and the person working her comes here and traines and then once finished will show her.
Each deal is a bit differnt but the one thing they have in comon is that it is costing me nothing in training cost and the reining mare cost me nothing at all.
Deals can be made. However I would sugest that you sit down and really talk to the trainer. Make sure you both the the same golls in mind and are on the same page. Also use a good attorney and have a good contract with everything spelled out clearly.
Heidi
Trainers
Blue,
You should have found out by now that owners spend all the $$. Trainers whether they are the Pletchers or the 5k claimers, vets, boarding farms, will take you to the cleaners. None of them want to take any risks about the $$ they receive. They have taken millionaires and made them broke. This is a sport of kings and flimflam used car dealers that will fleece you sooner than you can turn around.
This being said, get your own trainers license; pay the breaking fees if you have to, and collect all the dollars that come from your horses that your $$ have bought and paid.
I challenge the board to show me a non-trainer owner that makes more than his trainer at the end of the year. If they were worth their salt, day rate would be the only compensation they receive. That goes for the Jocks too...Then you would have people who don't want to lose because their livelihood depends upon their skills and training abilities.
You should have found out by now that owners spend all the $$. Trainers whether they are the Pletchers or the 5k claimers, vets, boarding farms, will take you to the cleaners. None of them want to take any risks about the $$ they receive. They have taken millionaires and made them broke. This is a sport of kings and flimflam used car dealers that will fleece you sooner than you can turn around.
This being said, get your own trainers license; pay the breaking fees if you have to, and collect all the dollars that come from your horses that your $$ have bought and paid.
I challenge the board to show me a non-trainer owner that makes more than his trainer at the end of the year. If they were worth their salt, day rate would be the only compensation they receive. That goes for the Jocks too...Then you would have people who don't want to lose because their livelihood depends upon their skills and training abilities.