In re the sterile CIGAR

Jorge · Postby **Jorge** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:45 am

Any possibility of doing the same (putting him loose with various mares)with allegedly sterile horse CIGAR?

http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/view ... hp?t=18096

Jenny · Postby **Jenny** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:51 am

Ya! You wonder how often they check to see if he is still sterile. 1 times per year? If they even check him at all? Interesting. Anyone know if they do periodic check on stallions that have been sterile? Sometimes fertility can make a recovery. After the drugs and the damage from the drugs have healed. You never know!

Intrinsic Worth · Postby **Intrinsic Worth** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:09 pm

When he was first sent to the KHP, I went there with the Board of Directors for a ranching company and we had a tour by the park director (Nicholson) and he said that they weren't going to pursue Cigar's fertility.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:12 pm

There is much more than just the physical aspect of this. The fertility insurance policy, taken out when he was syndicated, has already paid out. So even if he is no longer sterile, he cannot be bred.

Tairaterces · Postby **Tairaterces** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:57 pm

madelyn wrote:There is much more than just the physical aspect of this. The fertility insurance policy, taken out when he was syndicated, has already paid out. So even if he is no longer sterile, he cannot be bred.

I heard years ago that he has "swimmers" but they are in "bits & pieces".

Anybody know if "Cigar" was a steroid abuser?

llbean · Postby **llbean** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:09 pm

madelyn wrote:There is much more than just the physical aspect of this. The fertility insurance policy, taken out when he was syndicated, has already paid out. So even if he is no longer sterile, he cannot be bred.

Hey, War Emblem was bred after his insurance policy was paid out, so why not Cigar?

-llbean

Lucy · Postby **Lucy** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:23 pm

llbean wrote:Hey, War Emblem was bred after his insurance policy was paid out, so why not Cigar?

Didn't the farm buy out WE's policy so they could continue to work with him? Or am I mixing him up with another stallion?

Crystal · Postby **Crystal** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:36 pm

I think you're right. Last I remember they were still trying with him.. but he was a ADHD-breeder. His mind would wonder, and he wouldn't be interested.

Jorge · Postby **Jorge** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:59 pm

Many years ago, Reader's Digest published a beautiful story about a female bird who didn't fit at all with her peers, and all the females "belonged" to a certain bird male. The shy female bird was alone and rejected for many years until someone remembered another old male then unfashionable. The two were put together and they bonded extremely well for the joy and wealth of the farmer. Who knows if Cigar needs a very old mare as a companion and hope for the best. Just an opinion.

summerhorse · Postby **summerhorse** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:26 pm

I don't remember exactly what Cigar's problem was but he was not producing ANY viable sperm. They did test him for years but no change and it upset him too much (after learning to not be a stud to be stud and then not be stud again I guess) so I don't know that they bother any more. It isn't likely that his condition will ever correct itself.

But the insurance company owns him and they would be able to breed him if he were up to the task. They could sell him as a breeding stallion also (were he up to the task). Lure was turned over to the insurance company and was then sold (by silent bid) to Coolmore (wasn't it?) and they used him for years (with limited success!) and I believe it said when they gave him to Claiborne that it was on the condition he not be bred.

Intrinsic Worth · Postby **Intrinsic Worth** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:28 am

Whatever they put Cigar through before he came to the KHP must have been tough on him. I saw him shortly after he arrived and he looked awful. Skinny, you could see his ribs and his coat was very dull.

petersd · Postby **petersd** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:15 am

There are a couple of differences in the infertility policy between Cigar and War Emblem.
First - Cigar's policy was owned by one insurance company - Generali. The resulting $25 million payoff drove the company out of the equine insurance business. Once they had paid off, they claimed salvage rights, but then donated the stallion to the Horse Park. This was a straigt-forward infertility claim, as the tests showed his collections were far below standard, and he failed to get any qualified mares in foal.
In War Emblem's case, there were three different insurance companies involved. To date, only two have paid off. The third has refused as his particular issue does not exactly fit the "sub-fertility" clause of the policy. That, and the fact he has got mares in foal subsequent to the two other insurers paying off makes it a tangled mess.