Vessels Farm mistakenly breeds QH stallion to TB mare

Morvich · Postby **Morvich** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:02 pm

Has anyone else heard about this story? Apparently a good TB mare was supposed to have been bred to In Excess, but when they did the blood typing discovered that the foal was actually sired by First Down Dash (QH).

Since Vessels breeds its QH stallions by artificial insemination, how could this happen?

Fireslam · Postby **Fireslam** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:06 pm

Well, this seems to be all heresay on your part, but as far as how could this happen, very easily. The mare could have been mistaken for another mare.

Morvich · Postby **Morvich** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:43 pm

not heresay, the Jockey Club website makes it clear. Walts Wharf was the dam, the blood typing kit on the 2007 foal came back with the result that the foal was by First Down Dash, so the people cant register the foal.

From what I have read, the TB mare was bred in late May, and kept separate from the QH mares, so not likely they confused her with another mare. Not many mares bred that late.

Sysonby · Postby **Sysonby** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:00 pm

Can't they register the foal with the AQHA? Isn't First Down Dash the Storm Cat of QH racing? That actually might be a more valuable foal.

Linda_d · Postby **Linda_d** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:30 pm

Sysonby wrote:Can't they register the foal with the AQHA? Isn't First Down Dash the Storm Cat of QH racing? That actually might be a more valuable foal.

I agree that it's hardly the end of the world for the owners of Walts Wharf. They get an AQHA eligible foal that can fetch them a nice price at sale.

Lots of TB mares are bred to AQHA studs (and vice versa), so it would be easy to confuse mares, even if TB and AQHA mares were separated and even late in the season. BTW, a mare bred in late May would foal in late April, so that's not that late in the season that this was likely the only mare bred that day at Vessels.

Sam · Postby **Sam** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:09 pm

Looking at that mare, she was probably better of being bred to FDD.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:25 pm

I'm not sure that all QH breeders use AI if the mare is on the property, that would seem overly costly when they could easily do live cover. It's not as though live cover for QH's is PROHIBITED or anything. Notwithstanding, they obviously confused that mare with another one. I wonder if there is a QH mare out there with an unexpected foal by In Excess? That would be the worse situation of the two unless In Excess has an AQHA number for last year.

I find it not short of amazing that the JC could identify the sire of this mare's offspring, and not the colt that sired Amazing Philly. First Down Dash isn't even a Thoroughbred.

Morvich · Postby **Morvich** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:33 pm

I think the problem is that the stud fee on First Down Dash is $50,000, but In Excess stud fee for QH mares is only $10,000 ($20,000 for TBs). So it would cost the mare owner another $30,000 to register the foal.

First Down Dash is 24 years old so they AI him almost always.

Sysonby · Postby **Sysonby** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:38 pm

Morvich wrote:I think the problem is that the stud fee on First Down Dash is $50,000, but In Excess stud fee for QH mares is only $10,000 ($20,000 for TBs). So it would cost the mare owner another $40,000 to register the foal.

First Down Dash is 24 years old so they AI him almost always.

I think if its their (Vessels) screwup, it's their problem. I can't imagine that they are going to try to hold the mare owner to a stud fee he didn't agree to, not to mention a contract that he didn't sign. Plus Vessels has their own contract with the mare owner to honor for In Excess.

It'll get worked out, I'm sure.

Morvich · Postby **Morvich** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:55 pm

no doubt the paperwork will be worked out but I think its very suspicious that a TB mare was very likely artificially inseminated. Also, In Excess sired 75 TB foals and 77 QH foals that year so you know AI was used on him. I just think the employees picked up the wrong bottle.

LB · Postby LB » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:12 pm

Morvich wrote:no doubt the paperwork will be worked out but I think its very suspicious that a TB mare was very likely artificially inseminated. Also, In Excess sired 75 TB foals and 77 QH foals that year so you know AI was used on him. I just think the employees picked up the wrong bottle.

So I guess your point in coming here is to stir up trouble for Vessels?

Morvich · Postby **Morvich** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:22 pm

I didnt AI the mare, Vessels did. They stirred up their own trouble.

SInce you're from Kentucky, why don't you share about how many farms there use AI and get away with it?

LB · Postby LB » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:49 pm

Morvich wrote:SInce you're from Kentucky, why don't you share about how many farms there use AI and get away with it?

I guess I don't have your inside sources. All I see in my neighborhood are many, many live covers.

cewright · Postby **cewright** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:30 pm

madelyn wrote:I find it not short of amazing that the JC could identify the sire of this mare's offspring, and not the colt that sired Amazing Philly. First Down Dash isn't even a Thoroughbred.

Not a surprise at all as both the JC and the AQHA use UC Davis for their DNA testing.

Chuck

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:16 pm

Yes, but the sire of Amazing Philly was a TB.