Pasture breeding

[myoldkyfarm]

I know there was a discussion about the pros and cons of pasture breeding earlier this year so I tried to find it and add this but couldn't find it.

But as a sign of what the world is coming to: I have a stallion turned out with some mares. Been turned out together for months, have had other stallions before turned out with the same mares, they are all one big happy used-to-it family.

I get a call today from animal control that one of the mares is breaking down repeatedly and the stallion's bred her numerous times while the animal control officer was there. So I have to separate the stallion from the herd or face charges or taking of the horses.... for a stallion pasture breeding a mare.

So it's not always as simple of a management decision as you would think.

Edited to clarify: "Breaking down" in this case is industry terminology for squatting, tail lifting and urinating as signs that the mare is receptive to breeding

[ratherrapid]

interesting that animal control is on it. kudos to them even if they're mistaken. i've had the concern in pasture breeding of leaving a stallion with mares that are unable to get away from him. i think its a legit concern. would you respond to the allegations of multiple breeding and the mare breaking down.

[Avila Acres]

I know there was a discussion about the pros and cons of pasture breeding earlier this year so I tried to find it and add this but couldn't find it.

But as a sign of what the world is coming to: I have a stallion turned out with some mares. Been turned out together for months, have had other stallions before turned out with the same mares, they are all one big happy used-to-it family.

I get a call today from animal control that one of the mares is breaking down repeatedly and the stallion's bred her numerous times while the animal control officer was there. So I have to separate the stallion from the herd or face charges or taking of the horses.... for a stallion pasture breeding a mare.


So it's not always as simple of a management decision as you would think.

I'm about to turn out my stallion with some mares this weekend so I find this very interesting. What did the animal control officer mean when he said the mare keeps breaking down after being bred? And if she wasn't breaking down but still be bred would he want the stallion removed?

[Gerry]

That is so completely wrong. Were you able to explain to Animal Control that they were pasture breeding? Did he actually see the stallions tail flagging so he knows that the mare was bred repeatedly while he was there or did he only see the mare being mounted?

The stallion that I use for pasture breeding will mount a mare a few times before he actually breeds her and after the "act" is done, he leaves her alone and rests for awhile.

This is actually the reason why this year the stallion and his mares are in a pasture with a ton of trees so noone can see what is going on. I did have a neighbor tell me that the horses must have been scared a few nights ago because he heard them screaming. The stallion was teasing his mares after dark because it was too hot during the day...he isnt dumb just waiting for the cooler temps.

[Bondama]

My herd lives this way, too....wtf does Animal Control mean by the mare "breaking down"? Does it mean she's collapsing under the stallion's weight?

Like Gerry's stud, mine does pretty much the same thing.....he mounts a time or two before he actually "finishes", then he chills out, usually very near to said mare.

[myoldkyfarm]

"Breaking down" is the standard terminology for a mare's behavior when she is asking a stallion to breed her. The two horses are following normal patterns of breeding behavior and this stallion is VERY lazy about penetration and will rarely do more than mount a mare. I've had to take a couple mares away from him because they got so pissed off at him after trying to back under him for days that they started beating HIM up

[Bondama]

Okay, duh....I forgot about that phrase! I have heard it before, now that you mention it.

Still....why does Animal Control even care? Is horse breeding illegal in your county?? I'm sorry, I just have NEVER had a good experience with Animal Control. I mean, I know they serve their purpose usually, but it's my experience most of them are PETA-loving, over-enthusiastic, unrealistic do-gooders who would like it if every single animal had its own air-conditioned bedroom and maid to pick up after it.

[myoldkyfarm]

I don't have a good response other than it's pathetic. As I told the AC officer, if you were calling to tell me that one had been wounded and needed immediate vet care, I would be thanking you but to have you call me from a neighbor's phone on my cell phone to harass me over a stallion breeding a mare is just ridiculous.

[shatanka]

geez....since when is it AGAINST THE LAW for horses to breed NATURALLY the way they were intended to free in a pasture? what exactly are the CHARGES he is going to bring against you? this is ridiculous. what's next...cops coming to our homes and arresting US for doing the same in the privacy of our homes? lol maybe they should have hid behind the bushes as Gerry mentioned! ask the officer WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO..GET THEM A HOTEL ROOM!!!!!!!!! godddddddddddd...i would be PISSED! and i bet you are. that guy is IGNORANT. there is nothing wrong with pasture breeding, or the stallion living with the herd as long as they all get along.

[Derby Lyn]

Ugh...I hate AC. They are there for a reason but when it comes to horses they are ignorant.

Sorry to get off subject a little. There was a case last year near me where they siezed about 70 head of paint and qh's for neglect. It is a breeding farm and they breed for racing. They had about 10 or so mares in foal. AC siezed the farm, the horses, tack, computers and other supplies. AC sold all the horses at auction for $50,000 total while there was still a lien on the horses.
One year later the judge threw everything out. Said the horses were NOT neglected (and they weren't) and orded this counties AC to pay back the owners the value of the horses, not what AC got for them. They also are getting paid back wages, lost stud fees, and much more that will proably come close to $500k when they are done. A stupid mistake on AC's part but I am so glad that the owners finally won this, even after a few of their horses were sent to slaughter b/c of AC.

Out of sight out of mind. My pastures are set up so most of them are behind the barn, and we have some trees by the road along the front fenceline. I can't see how this AC officer can justify what he wants done. Goodluck on that one.

[ratherrapid]

it is a bit of a mystery that those institutions set up to protect animals seem to be a target of people that profess to care about animals. next time you try to help a neglected horse, what are you going to do? call animal control, PETA, or your PETA hating right wing republican neighbor?

[myoldkyfarm]

Quite honestly, I believe the officer was fishing for me to sign the horses over to AC. Which I found highly offensive for multiple reasons including that they are in very good condition and are not in the least bit abused or neglected and the majority were extreme problem cases to begin with so it's no cheap feat that they look good. It takes a large feed bill and a lot of vet expense to keep them looking good and then I'm supposed to just sign them over so "they can can find them good homes". One is by Storm Cat, several are stakes producers, the mare getting bred is stakes placed. I don't doubt they'd love to raise money "finding homes" for them.

My issue here is the ridiculous notion that some people have that they can always provide a better home than anybody else. So if my horses are managed as livestock rather than pets, they deserve "a good home" with someone else. As if some broke college student could provide better feed and veterinary care once they "adopted" the horse than I can and do spending thousands on them a month but not grooming them each daily and tying ribbons in their manes. I am not against APPROPRIATE intervention on cases of abuse or neglect but to butt in on management decisions that do not cause abuse or neglect is bull in my opinion.

[aardvark]

I think your troubles are only just beginning. I would start calling some higher ups in AC to nip this now.

I would probably call my vet and get a letter stating they are in good health too.

I would also report my neighbor for noise, burning without a permit, child abuse and whatever else you can imagine.

[madelyn]

Hmm. The AC "officer" called you from a NEIGHBOR's phone?? On your cellphone??

I would be, to paraphrase a Marine I once knew, go ahuntin' to kick some A$$ and take some names. Impersonation of an AC Officer must also be some kind of punishable offence.

[myoldkyfarm]

The neighbors all have my number in order to contact me if they see anything wrong so I believe the neighbor in question dialed my number and handed the officer the phone when the officer came knocking. I don't believe that it was a prank call.