A clone of famous Gem Twist just born!

windham · Postby **windham** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:34 am

The latest cloning news comes from the European cloning firm Cryozootech
http://www.cryozootech.com , who have today announced the birth of a
clone of the three-time "American Grand Prix Association Horse of the
Year", legendary American Thoroughbred gelding showjumper "Gem Twist".

Gem Twist - owned and bred by Frank and Mary Chapot - was much loved by
followers of the sport of showjumping for an entire generation, winning
two Silver Medals at the 1988 Seoul Olympic Games under Greg Best, as
well as Team Silver at the Pan-American Games, and numerous other Grand
Prix. In 1990 he was named the "World's Best Horse" at the World
Equestrian Games in Stockholm.

The only real "downside" To Gem Twist was that he was a gelding - and
therefore unable to pass on his excellent genetic material to please
future generation of showjumping fans - but now, with this clone, he can!

windham · Postby **windham** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:43 am

He was registered as Icey Twist with The Jockey Club

freshman · Postby **freshman** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:57 am

windham wrote:He was registered as Icey Twist with The Jockey Club

The Jockey Club won't be calling this horse anything at all.

jumper77 · Postby **jumper77** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:20 pm

freshman wrote:
windham wrote:He was registered as Icey Twist with The Jockey Club

The Jockey Club won't be calling this horse anything at all.

I believe that was the registered name of the original Gem Twist.

I wonder how old GT was when they took DNA from him. Say he was 25. Would that mean that the clone is essentially 25 years old at birth?

bayrabicano · Postby **bayrabicano** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:26 am

What a wonderful point…

“Another misconception is that people think that if they have a pet dog, a perfect pet dog with a perfect personality, they think cloning will give them that exact dog. As others have noted, cloning is replication, not resurrection. If you know any identical twins, you see they are genetically the same, but their personalities can be miles apart.”

From

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=5504350 (About cloned race mules)

A really old article about Dolly when she was alive…

http://www.cnn.com/NATURE/9905/26/dolly.clone.02/

“The bioengineered embryo was implanted in the ewe's womb and Dolly developed as a clone of the 6-year-old sheep.

"Although Dolly the sheep is physically young and healthy .... her telomeres are about the same length as her mother's. She has aged genetically, but not in her body," Jones said.
Dolly's shortened telomeres had been predicted as one outcome of cloning, but researchers are unsure if such evidence will cause her to die prematurely. Sheep have a life expectancy of 13 years.”

…and we all know that Dolly died at around 6 years of age with arthritis and other health issues.

Uck. Why bother? It seems like there are more likely ways to develop another champion - this path sounds like a heartbreak waiting to happen.

BlazingColours · Postby **BlazingColours** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:06 am

I think it is very neat. Gem was an amazing athlete and since he was a gelding he was never able to pass on his genetics. I assume this colt would be used as a breeding stallion to pass on the DNA Gem Twist would have. It would be interesting to see him train and perform but I doubt that they will do that with him. I think he will be used as a stallion in place of Gem Twist. He will be bred for show horses/warmbloods, one would think, and they would not care about his JC status.

It will be interesting to see what the WB associations do with him. Does he get automatic approval because he (in previous form) full filled the performance requirements.

jumper77 · Postby **jumper77** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:19 am

BlazingColours wrote:It will be interesting to see what the WB associations do with him. Does he get automatic approval because he (in previous form) full filled the performance requirements.

That's an interesting thought.

----------------------
So a clone doesn't look or act like the original, right? So is it possible that Part II might grow up to look like a mule and move like a moose?

xfactor fan · Postby **xfactor fan** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:57 am

I thnk after Dolly more care was taken about the telomeres. However the other concern is the mtDNA. Did they select a egg from the same mtDNA family that the original Gem Twist came from? Or did they use a egg from the host mare?

jumper77 · Postby **jumper77** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:08 am

xfactor fan wrote:I thnk after Dolly more care was taken about the telomeres. However the other concern is the mtDNA. Did they select a egg from the same mtDNA family that the original Gem Twist came from? Or did they use a egg from the host mare?

You might as well be speaking chinese to me. If I hadn't seen the word before, I'd think a telomere was something you attached to your roof to get better tv reception. In fact, I still kinda' do. :lol:

So does that mean that if they took DNA from an elderly Gem Twist, that the foal wouldn't be prematurely aged?

Laurierace · Postby **Laurierace** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:05 am

They use skin cells now which are constantly replicating so they are "new" and not the biological age of the donor.

Tucumcari · Postby **Tucumcari** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:48 am

It seems to be a slippery slope. Man playing God. I don't like the idea. I dislike it more if the horse/clone is to be used for breeding purposes. I just don't like it at all.

Toccet02 · Postby **Toccet02** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:53 am

The below is from an article by Donald DeMarco

What are telomeres? They are the protective tips on the chromosomes of all mammals. They keep the ends of various chromosomes from accidentally becoming attached to one another. Chromosomes are the slender strands that carry genes—which are our units of inheritance, the factors that determine our physical features. Over time, as our cells continue to divide, our telomeres become progressively shorter. This takes place without the genes themselves being affected. The shorter our telomeres get, the more we are at risk for all those health problems that are associated with aging: cancer, arthritis, and a variety of other degenerative diseases.

vineyridge · Postby **vineyridge** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:24 pm

I'm hoping they used one of his sisters or half sisters as the egg donor and recipient mare. The Chapots bred a bunch of them.

If you use skin cells for the nucleus (or stem cells), you shouldn't run into telomere issues.

Vindicated · Postby **Vindicated** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:57 pm

As a general rule I strongly oppose cloning-
But to be 100% honest my first thought was "I want to breed to him-I don't care what it costs"
As a youngster growing up in the hunter/jumper world my two idols were Micheal Matz and Gem Twist.
Its just really cool....in a sci-fi kind of way...

Pawtucket · Postby **Pawtucket** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:58 pm

As a youngster growing up in the hunter/jumper world my two idols were Micheal Matz and Gem Twist.

Vindicated,

These two are for you. Enjoy!

and