Filly is possessive of her food

vallygirl927 · Postby **vallygirl927** » Tue May 31, 2011 1:39 pm

Has anyone had any experience with a foal that is/was possessive of it's food? My 2 month old Stormin Fever filly shares just fine with Mom and doesn't have to fight for her food. As soon as I get near her or in her vicinity while Mom is grained she pins her ears and turns her butt towards me. She has had plenty of human interaction but has not had any socialization with other foals. When the grain is out of sight, she's just fine to be around. I'm wondering if this is something she'll grow out of or if I need to take make some changes before it gets worse.

griff · Postby **griff** » Tue May 31, 2011 4:23 pm

hold the bucket while she eats

griff

Dave C · Postby **Dave C** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:25 am

I wouldn't count on her growing out of it. This is dominance behavior at its' root. I have seen quite a few horses who are protective of their food. I have one mare who won't even share with her babies (not mean, just tells them to keep their head out her food). I even had a colt a few years back who tried to keep his mom away from her food: he'd get between her and the food and then try backing up to push her away - very cute. If you don't need to work with her while she is eating, I don't really see it as a problem.

NorthStar · Postby **NorthStar** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:45 pm

Dave C wrote:I wouldn't count on her growing out of it. This is dominance behavior at its' root. I have seen quite a few horses who are protective of their food. I have one mare who won't even share with her babies (not mean, just tells them to keep their head out her food). I even had a colt a few years back who tried to keep his mom away from her food: he'd get between her and the food and then try backing up to push her away - very cute. If you don't need to work with her while she is eating, I don't really see it as a problem.

Sounds like an Alpha or "second in command" trait to me. Mama has taught her well.

vallygirl927 · Postby **vallygirl927** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:19 am

@ Northstar,

Whats your opinion of this? Should I correct it or leave it be?

griff · Postby **griff** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:29 pm

If you hold her feed bucket while she eats she has to come to you.

that an some light seesons in a round pen should do the trick

Every time she turns her rear end to you and you back away you are reinforcing bad and could be dangerious behavior.. This might be cute when they are small but it will not be cute when they get bigger.. This is alpha behavior and if you assume the omega position you are asking for big time trouble later on

I recommend you nip this in the bud or prehaps contact a rodeo stock broker

griff

NorthStar · Postby **NorthStar** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:40 pm

vallygirl927 wrote:@ Northstar,

Whats your opinion of this? Should I correct it or leave it be?

If you want a pet, correct her. Or if you feel the need to be treated as the "alpha" try what another poster said, "hold the bucket" (for the mama as the mama eats.
Foals learn from the mother. How the mother responds to YOU is IMPRINTED on the foal.

If you watch quietly from afar or even sitting for long periods of time, you will see and hear mama's lessons to her foal. Very enlightening and beautiful to behold.

If you want a stone, instinctual racehorse let mama teach her foal what SHE thinks is best. (Unless of course, mama is a cribber

)

Edited to add: Most racehorses don't like to be bothered while they are eating. They get little enough "me space" as it is. Messing with a horse while it is eating, unless it is something you do to make it easier to to bandages or something (though that might work against you), I see no need to correct a baby at this stage of the game.

Later, in a paddock situation, she might learn to share, when you bring treats and/or may need to be isolated if she learns to hoard the food and becomes a perpetual "easy keeper".

This behavior you describe, IMO, is not a sign of dangerous behavior. It is natural mama/foal teaching and like I said, the foal gets its cue from the mama. Have a good relationship with mama and you will have a good relationship with foal. Groom mama. Talk in whispers to her. The foal will be so curious to be part of what mama is getting, she won't be able to stand it! At least that has been my experience.

vallygirl927 · Postby **vallygirl927** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:12 am

Her dam is perfect. I have no dominance issues with her. She wouldn't hurt a fly. When it comes to other horses, she can prove to be a bit dominant, but with people she is a dream to work with.

NorthStar · Postby **NorthStar** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:29 am

vallygirl927 wrote:Her dam is perfect. I have no dominance issues with her. She wouldn't hurt a fly. When it comes to other horses, she can prove to be a bit dominant, but with people she is a dream to work with.

Then, like I said, focus on your relationship with the mama. The foal is taking its cues from mama. Mama has taught her to stand guard on the food. I seriously doubt she would try to harm you unless you made some sort of threatening move. If your relationship with the dam is good then she is not teaching, nor is the foal observing any reason for her to fear or try to dominate you. The Alpha/Omega thing rarely occurs in a non-herd situation, if you have already established a good relationship with the mare.

Hope mare and baby have lots of room to run around. Without that, she will have very little chance of growing into a viable racehorse. (That's why KY foals are so much better...the rolling pastures and the great limestone in the soil.)

Would also consider checking into this product ( www.OCDPellets.com ) for bones and joints a.s.a.p. It has done wonders to turn around a long history of OCD damage in my mare's babies. Also Adequan while cartilage is still forming is very protective.

Best of luck for a sound, successful future for this filly!

vallygirl927 · Postby **vallygirl927** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:41 pm

Thanks Northstar. Dam and foal have 3 acres of irrigated pasture to themselves. Filly looks awesome and is very athletic with a good walk. You can see pics of her in the foalwatch section under "Stormin Fever Filly". Scroll to the end and you will see the most updated photos.

griff · Postby **griff** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:56 am

wrong.

Hold the foal's feed bucket and make her come to you if she wants gain..

you may have to tie the mare so she does not come to you and not feed the mare until you have fed the foal by hand so it will not be tempted to eat from it's dam bucket instead of from the bucket you are holding.

She is guarding her feed from you, correct.. so turn the tables on her and be the provider instead of a potential threat of taking her feed

This behavior is not acceptable and the foal should not be rewared for it..

griff

Shammy Davis · Postby **Shammy Davis** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:59 pm

I've dealt with a number of colts and fillies who acted out during feeding. I don't tolerate any horse pinning its ears and turning its rear to me. If I anticipate this happening, I take a lunge whip with me and the minute the hind end moves in my direction they get whipped across the croup. It doesn't take long before the young horse keeps its eyes directly on me and its rear end out of harms way. Once I've got their attention I show them the feed bucket and they follow me to their feed pan that is placed on the ground in the paddock. We have three horses to a paddock and it doesn't take long for them to know what feed pan is theirs.

In over 40 years as a horseman and farrier, I've been kicked once and that was my fault. Griff is exactly right. You can't tolerate a horse that moves into position to kick you. Horses do learn from each other but that has to do with herd pecking order. When it comes to paddock, stall, and handling manners, juveniles only learn from a good handler and/or competent rider.

NorthStar · Postby **NorthStar** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:50 pm

Shammy Davis wrote:I've dealt with a number of colts and fillies who acted out during feeding. I don't tolerate any horse pinning its ears and turning its rear to me. If I anticipate this happening, I take a lunge whip with me and the minute the hind end moves in my direction they get whipped across the croup. It doesn't take long before the young horse keeps its eyes directly on me and its rear end out of harms way. Once I've got their attention I show them the feed bucket and they follow me to their feed pan that is placed on the ground in the paddock. We have three horses to a paddock and it doesn't take long for them to know what feed pan is theirs.

In over 40 years as a horseman and farrier, I've been kicked once and that was my fault. Griff is exactly right. You can't tolerate a horse that moves into position to kick you. Horses do learn from each other but that has to do with herd pecking order. When it comes to paddock, stall, and handling manners, juveniles only learn from a good handler and/or competent rider.

I'm quite curious as to what anyone is doing messing with a mare and her foal while it is eating? I've never seen this done unless one is going in to do feet and then the farrier usually brings grain and the horse comes to him. Horses are herd animals. You are messing with their natural instincts to bother them while they are eating UNLESS you are in there to protect another horse who isn't being allowed to eat by the dominant ones.

Diane · Postby **Diane** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:07 pm

Northstar I'm with you on this one, especially if this mare and foal are on a 3 acre pasture by themselves. The pic I'm remembering it looked like a hiway bordered it and I didn't get the impression it was a horse ranch. What I'm getting at is predators.....dogs, coyotes, thieves. The moment this foal sticks it's head in a bucket or water trough it better be flicking it's ears and aiming it's little rear end at anything that moves or it's a victim.
Now if this mare and foal were in a barn with other horses and getting turned out by a handler twice a day that behavior might not be appropriate and I probably would be hand feeding and holding that bucket as others have mentioned.

vallygirl927 · Postby **vallygirl927** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:50 pm

When I refer to "messing" with the foal I really don't mean I'm actually haltering this filly or asking her to work while she's eating. I usually just grain mama and do a visual inspection of the filly while she's sharing with mom. I may even just be in her vicinity or even just giving her a few pets. And even though Diane suggests she doesn't believe they are on a "real" horse ranch, I'll make it clear that they are on a "real" horse ranch. It's a 40 acre property with a 1/2 mile racetrack.