I utilize the online Blood-Horse Stallion Directory to help plan my matings. I also admit to plugging into the True Nicks option with each of my mares, primarily because by doing so generates a nice five-generation pedigree. Of course I can't help but see what letter grades True Nicks has assigned to these hypo matings.
One of my mares is HONOR PATTI (http://www.pedigreequery.com/honor+patti). She is by the good Relaunch sire HONOUR AND GLORY, but more to the point, she is a half-sister to recent Grade One winner WISE DAN.
WISE DAN is sired by the unfashionable WISEMAN'S FERRY, a son of HENNESEY (Storm Cat). Since neither HENNESEY nor his best son JOHANNESBURG is available I plugged in SCAT DADDY, to whom I have a 2012 season, since he is by JOHANNESBURG.
According to True Nicks this is a "C" rating, even though two graded stakes winners have been produced by this cross. ( http://truenicks.com/free-reports/hypot ... or%20Patti )
Then I ran a True Nicks report on Honor Patti mated to MUNNINGS, to whom I have three seasons. http://truenicks.com/free-reports/hypot ... or%20Patti
The rating? An A++!!
It would be natural to conclude that this GONE WEST/RELAUNCH cross was responsible for creating some damn nice racehorses to earn an A++ rating, right?
But as the report shows the BEST horses from this blending were the minor stakes winners CODE OF HONOUR (Evangeline Downs Inaugural S.); COLD TRIAL (River Downs Hoover S.); GONE REBEL (Anoakia S.); amd PATRIOTIC VIVA (Serenas Song S.). Not even a graded stakes PLACING among these minor stakes winners.
Herein lies one of the major defects of True Nicks, and I daresay, all of the commercial Nicking Products: They are misleading, if not counter-productive, by their LACK OF A QUALITATIVE FILTER. In this case a nick which produced two GRADED stakes winners receives a "C" rating, while another nick whose best representatives could only win a few $50,000 listed races raceive an "A++" grade.
While I havent decided yet I am far more likely to breed HONOR PATTI to SCAT DADDY because that sire line has already produced a Grade One winner from Honor Patti's dam.
Sorry, Mr. Rogers, but I wont be taking your advice to breed to an A++ nick with this mare. However, should I decide I want to win a stakes race at Evangeline Downs or River Downs I may re-evaluate that decision.
Here's a good example of why I don't trust Nicking Products
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Barcaldine
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Ya know, Barc, I would cut these guys some slack. You used their program, and they aren't offering a free service to benefit the multitudes. Of course they need to charge, and the fact that you didn't have to pay a dime for all their pedigree products is a bit of free enterprise at its finest.
They crow about their results, they sign up the stallions, they offer free reports for those stallions, and you benefited from the reports. Whether you choose to use the results is your own personal business. I think most reasonable and responsible breeders understand that all this nicking is simply a tool, with faults, but with a few nuggets of interest thrown in. Something to look at and either use or cast aside.
The nicks have become all the rage because breeding is such a crap shoot at best, and "nicking" theories offer a perceived logical although perhaps misguided plan for the breeder. It's fine for you to continue to offer warnings to newbie breeders out there in the world, (very similar to the warnings continuously given on Louis' thread), but let's call a spade a spade here: you used their program, it made you think, probably reinforced an opinion you already had, you got a pedigree report out of it, and all at no cost to you.
They crow about their results, they sign up the stallions, they offer free reports for those stallions, and you benefited from the reports. Whether you choose to use the results is your own personal business. I think most reasonable and responsible breeders understand that all this nicking is simply a tool, with faults, but with a few nuggets of interest thrown in. Something to look at and either use or cast aside.
The nicks have become all the rage because breeding is such a crap shoot at best, and "nicking" theories offer a perceived logical although perhaps misguided plan for the breeder. It's fine for you to continue to offer warnings to newbie breeders out there in the world, (very similar to the warnings continuously given on Louis' thread), but let's call a spade a spade here: you used their program, it made you think, probably reinforced an opinion you already had, you got a pedigree report out of it, and all at no cost to you.
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Shammy Davis
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I agree with Docojoy. You can't have it both ways. You now admit to using the information you've been bad mouthing in other threads for several months. Everytime you post, you become less and less credible. Only a fool uses resources that he/she has no confidence in. Why don't you act "smart" and keep your mouth shut? That way, if you breed the next Triple Crown winner, you can take all the credit yourself.
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Barcaldine
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That makes no sense at all. To generate a five-generation hypo-pedigree on the Blood-Horse stallion register site one must use the True Nicks link. That's because Blood-Horse owns True Nicks, or a good part of it.
That fact is one reason why I've lost much respect for the Blood-Horse. They know the whole nicking cottage industry is pedigree voodoo but it was so desperate to improve it's bottom line that it bought into it anyway. It's as if the New York Times took as a partner the National Enquirer.
BH is, in fact, offering this free service to benefit the multitudes, at least in their minds. They are also hoping that enough neophytes are captivated by this pseudo-science to actually pay for some of it.
Like Snake Oil salesmen the Blood Horse is cagey enough to know that free samples sometimes lead to cash sales.
That fact is one reason why I've lost much respect for the Blood-Horse. They know the whole nicking cottage industry is pedigree voodoo but it was so desperate to improve it's bottom line that it bought into it anyway. It's as if the New York Times took as a partner the National Enquirer.
BH is, in fact, offering this free service to benefit the multitudes, at least in their minds. They are also hoping that enough neophytes are captivated by this pseudo-science to actually pay for some of it.
Like Snake Oil salesmen the Blood Horse is cagey enough to know that free samples sometimes lead to cash sales.
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Barcaldine
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It's hard to support a system that dismisses half the genetic pool. My theory is there are a few mares and a few stallions that are true genetic difference makers. Then there are mares who impact foals with their maternal talent. Finally you have a bunch of mares and stallions who randomly click genetically and lastly foals who reach their full potential whatever that might be based on the human hands developing them.
"Politicians should be limited to two terms, one in office and another in jail." Anonymous
Barcaldine wrote:Shammy, why don't you post another link that no one reads.
I read them. I've learned a lot doing so.
May 2013: Plan ahead now for the Phalaris/Teddy Centennial!
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A horse gallops with his lungs
Perseveres with his heart
And wins with his character. --Tesio
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A horse gallops with his lungs
Perseveres with his heart
And wins with his character. --Tesio
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Shammy Davis
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Barcaldine: Why don't you say something that makes sense? If you insist on being a "stumble bum," I've got no "links" that will help you. Probably wouldn't hurt you a bit to put your nose in some reading material before you "shoot off your mouth" again. You must have a lot of stress being the "last word" on everything. How do you handle the pressure?
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Barcaldine
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all this nicking mumbo jumbo is to make you feel warm and fuzzy as you throw your money away.....yes its a tool.....a small one , like a screw driver 
...again, just a useful piece of the puzzle.
...again, just a useful piece of the puzzle.
Last edited by reenci on Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A great man cannot help himself," "He can see things that other men cannot see themselves, and his greatness lies in doing whatever is necessary to make his vision real
barcaldine wrote "It's as if the New York Times took as a partner the National Enquirer"..... 
....the national enquirer is more truthful these days than the New york times...ole pinky has run it into the ground and its a shadow of its former self and going broke 
....the national enquirer is more truthful these days than the New york times...ole pinky has run it into the ground and its a shadow of its former self and going broke A great man cannot help himself," "He can see things that other men cannot see themselves, and his greatness lies in doing whatever is necessary to make his vision real
Shammy Davis wrote:Barcaldine: Why don't you say something that makes sense? If you insist on being a "stumble bum," I've got no "links" that will help you. Probably wouldn't hurt you a bit to put your nose in some reading material before you "shoot off your mouth" again. You must have a lot of stress being the "last word" on everything. How do you handle the pressure?
Spammy-
Why don't you keep your negative opinions to yourself? I find Barcaldine's postings a lot more interesting than your drivel. I too look at potential nick ratings, mostly out of curiosity, and I CAN have it both ways. I can look at them and criticize them at the same time.
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Shammy Davis
- Chef de Race: Classic
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ct2346 wrote:
I don't care!
Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
Spammy-
Why don't you keep your negative opinions to yourself? I find Barcaldine's postings a lot more interesting than your drivel. I too look at potential nick ratings, mostly out of curiosity, and I CAN have it both ways. I can look at them and criticize them at the same time.
I don't care!
Put that in your pipe and smoke it!