OK what the heck is a bleeder???

[Scarlett]

I am so confused. I have been around horse my WHOLE LIFE!@!@! and I have never heard of such a thing. I am a reining trainer too (how bad is that?) And I just recently found out that bleeders are very common is reiners and racers! Can someone explain please. I just got a mare, G C's Dier, a 1990 mare who has raced some. I don't know a whole lot of info on her but on her papers there was a little sticker or something that said she is a certified bleeder and she was allowed to be on medication. Can anyone explain? Oh yeah, any fun insights on my mare would be nice. She has a GORGEOUS Appendix QH colt at her side now!

[jL]

A bleeder is a term used to describe a horse who is prone to bleeding from the nose during heavy work (racing, for example). Lasix (sp?) is the drug of choice to combat the problem.

[Pete]

Hi Scarlett,

Actually it's bleeding in the lungs that's often apparent in the nose (capillary bleeding). A rupture is obviously far more serious and fortunately rare.

If a horse is scoped after a race the attending vet will tll you the degree of bleeding on a 0-5 rating with 5 being the most severe.

Horses that bleed severly in a race will often perform poorly. One of my mares fell in the stretch due to excessive bleeding so I retired her.

Pete

[henthorn]

Scarlett, unfortunately the term is used willy-nilly these days because most trainers believe every horse in the barn runs better with less pulmonary artery pressure. The medical term for it is Exercise-induced Pulmonary Hypertension. It is reduced with the use of Lasix or Salix, a diuretic anti-bleeding medication that is also used for congestive heart failure in people. Many horses are certified bleeders because the trainer and veterinarian agree it's no big deal to falsify the papers (who would know they are lying?).

A serious bleeder needs rest and recuperation, and if persistent, retirement. A minor bleeder may just need a little less stress and some medication during its performances. A non-bleeder receiving unnecessary medication usually suffers no harm unless the dosing and frequency is too much, because that can deplete their electrolytes or dehydrate them too much. You really don't know how serious the problem is or if there really is a problem unless you see it first-hand or trust the persons who say they did.

[louis finochio]

To Scarlett: Try this formula on your horse for bleeding. Plaintin Powder, Elderflower Powder, Garlic Powder, Eyebright Powder, and Yarrow Powder. You can purchas these herbs at your herb store. Use 2oz. of the mix in AM and 2oz. in PM.

[BJ]

To Scarlett: Try this formula on your horse for bleeding. Plaintin Powder, Elderflower Powder, Garlic Powder, Eyebright Powder, and Yarrow Powder. You can purchas these herbs at your herb store. Use 2oz. of the mix in AM and 2oz. in PM.

Louis,

Are you a holistic vet? Is this a formula you have used with success on your own horses?

Thanks,
BJ

[Pie™]

henthorn, agree, agree, agree. If they can classify your horse as a bleeder, they will. The first homebred we ever ran - I KNEW he wasn't a bleeder -and I didn't care one whit that my trainer wanted him on (then) Lasix (now) Salix. They said he was bleeding and I made the vet scope him, in front of me, and then let me see what he was seeing - and sure nuff - that horse was not a bleeder. He did not run on Lasix - no matter that the trainer thought it would enhance his performance or not.

[Lei Owen]

This is a web site that carries a non-prescription medication for horses with EIPH. I've heard of great result's using their Pulmon-EZ. www.totalhealthenhancement.com. BUT you want to be certain that the horse has EIPH before you give them any kind of medication.

[seabiscuit]

http://www.lawleys.com/our_products/horse_products.htm

Here is another product that is suppose to help bleeders. highly recomended that the horse has recieved it since it was very young as it developes.

[louis finochio]

I have not used this formula on my TB. This formula has been handed down from generation to generation, and it was posted on this board months ago. I am now useing this formula on bleeders to see if it is still positive. I'll post the results when all my research is completed.

[jL]

Actually it's bleeding in the lungs that's often apparent in the nose (capillary bleeding).

Yes, I should have been more specific.

[Pete]

Hi JL,

Your reply was sufficient for most people. We build on each others answers. Henthorn broadened my reply.

Regards,

Pete

[jellac]

To Henthorn's reply I would only add this - It's become worse than the proliferation of trainer's/vets reinforcing one another on the 'need' to treat for bleeding, no matter the severity....many trainers today, and I'm talking top trainers as well as the rest, are giving young as yet untried, never really stressed Tbs Lasix, etc. as preventative while in training - that's right a preventative of something they assume is gong to occur, even though they may only see if indeed it has by sticking a scope tube down a horse's bronchial passages to the point where "some" blood may be present in the mucus......as it is normally in most athletes of high stress/aerobic sports....like runners, etc.

Exercise Induced Pulmonary Hemoraging - EIPH - is the name because it takes the stimulus of stressful levels of exercise to induce the "hemorraging" i.e. the bleeding. But today you're seeing horses administered these drugs before they ever get to that level of stressful exercise and before they ever exhibit, externally or in behavior "hemorraging".

Interestingly enough I have always heard - but do not not know for a fact - that in Germany not only can a horse not race on these medications, if ever used - it cannot stand at stud or be bred on. Think of that - no thoroughbred that was EVER on Lasix (or Salix,etc.) can stand at stud or be bred to produce a thoroughbred that will be registered with the German Jockey Club....Bettina/anyone else - is this still true?

[Lei Owen]

Ummm...that interesting. If that's true, then they must think EIPH is genetic.

[Pete]

Hi Jellac,

You hit a very important topic. The Germans are breeding against bleeders and we, by using medications that would have otherwise made race careers less possible, are breeding to and insuring that we have bleeders.

Regards,

Pete