Would You Buy These Horses At These Prices ?

[Nijinsky]

http://www.starquine.com/mare_detail_ne ... sp?id=5025

http://www.starquine.com/mare_detail_ne ... sp?id=5026


This guy must be VERY green. Wishful thinking I'd say

He couldn't even put up a picture of his wonderful merchandise

[Nijinsky]

Good rule of thumb NEVER overbreed your mare. Paying a $30.000 stud fee on a mare like that and hoping for $85,000 won't work.

[TBLADY]

all I can say is DAMN! lol

[BJ]

http://www.starquine.com/mare_detail_new_auction_new.asp?id=5025

http://www.starquine.com/mare_detail_ne ... sp?id=5026


This guy must be VERY green. Wishful thinking I'd say

He couldn't even put up a picture of his wonderful merchandise

Actually, the second link isn't that bad. The 2nd Dam is Dam of Artax. That will excite a few people!

[Whispering Oaks]

The word around town is that the Aldebaran foals are pretty nice as a group. What B J said I think is true people will look at the 2nd dam and think this colt might be worth a look.

[madelyn]

The first one is a ... huh?? But the second one....

[Nijinsky]

You may be right BJ

But I still do not think I would pay that much for a WEANLING out of an unproven sire and no photo's. It would have to be an outstanding individual conformation wise. The WEANLING for $85,000 is a joke !
Just shows me this guy doesn't know what he is doing !

[BJ]

You may be right BJ

But I still do not think I would pay that much for a WEANLING out of an unproven sire and no photo's. It would have to be an outstanding individual conformation wise. The WEANLING for $85,000 is a joke !
Just shows me this guy doesn't know what he is doing !

Or maybe he does...and he's appealing to the born yesterday, just can't wait to get screwed in racing crowd Ya know...the ones that drink at sales, because they hired a bloodstock agent

[Nijinsky]

I emailed the guy. He sounded like all that mattered was WHO was in the pedigree, big names and nicking. I personally put more stock in performance.

How many here put more stock in NICKING rather than PERFORMANCE ?

[Des]

I have seen some where in this post that a mare like Azeri( for example) who has proven herself on the track should be bred to a cheaper stallion that nicks better with her breeding. Maybe this person is thinking in the reverse, a cheaper mare bred to a valued stallion. Who knows what will happen. I wouldn't pay that much but maybe it may work out for him......He's going against the logical rule of Thumb...There are NO Guarantees.........

[BJ]

I emailed the guy. He sounded like all that mattered was WHO was in the pedigree, big names and nicking. I personally put more stock in performance.

How many here put more stock in NICKING rather than PERFORMANCE ?

I'm not sure what you mean by "performance". Nicks are usually based upon a statistical number of stakes horses produced by certain lines being crossed. So that IS a "performance" statistic/THEORY. In examining weanlings for purchase, you cannot really judge performance, except in the catalog page, many of which are an inaccurate and incomplete picture of the female family. That is why *I* would look up all the progeny race records and produce record of the mare, to read between the lines, before I would consider plunking down any $$ for a horse I hoped to succeed with, at the races or in pinhooking.

This guy seems to be trying to avoid paying sales commissions and hoping to find someone who will bite at or near his price. BUT, not even the biggest dummy on the planet will plunk down $85K, site unseen. If the horse was worth $85K or better, the pinhookers would have already snatched him up, IMO. Having said that...the linebreeding is *interesting*:

Linebreeding Chart for JOHANNESBURG/WHATEVER WILL

Horse Inbreeding Stats Crosses Lines Blood% Influence AGR

SECRETARIAT 5s x 4d 2 2 (0) (2) 9.38% 4x5 11.38%

LAURIES DANCER 5d x 4d 2 2 (0) (2) 9.38% 4x5 12.58%

NORTHERN DANCER 5S x 7S x 6d x 5d 4 3 (2) (1) 8.59% 5x5 10.91%

INTENTIONALLY 5D x 5D 2 2 (2) (0) 6.25% 5x5 7.03%

RAISE A NATIVE 5S x 5D 2 2 (2) (0) 6.25% 5x5 7.56%

NEARCO 7S x 8S x 8S x 7S x 8S x 9S x 9s x 9S x 8D x 8D x 8D x 7D x
7D 13 5 (4) (1) 6.05% 5x6 6.25%*

BOLD RULER 6S x 7S x 5D 3 2 (2) (0) 5.47% 5x6 7.81%

NATIVE DANCER 7s x 6S x 9s x 6D x 8d x 7d 6 2 (1) (1) 5.27% 5x6 5.27%*

NASRULLAH 7S x 7S x 8S x 7D x 6D 5 3 (3) (0) 4.30% 6x6 6.64%

PRINCEQUILLO 7s x 7s x 7s x 9d x 6d 5 4 (0) (4) 4.10% 6x6 4.10%*

DISCOVERY 9s x 8s x 8s x 9s x 8d x 7d x 7d x 7d x 9d 9 3 (0) (3) 4.10% 6x6 2.93%*

BLENHEIM2 9S x 9s x 9S x 8S x 8S x 9s x 9s x 8S x 9S x 9s x 9S x 9d x 9d x 9D x 8d x 9D 16 5 (3) (2) 3.91% 6x6 0.78%*

TOM FOOL 6S x 6D x 7D 3 3 (3) (0) 3.91% 6x6 4.39%

MAHMOUD 8s x 7S x 7s x 8s x 8s x 9d x 8d x 8d 8 6 (1) (5) 3.71% 6x6 3.81%*

TEDDY 9S x 9S x 9s x 8S x 9S x 8D x 9D x 9d x 9d x 9D x 9D x 9d x 8D 13 6 (4) (2) 3.13% 6x6 1.37%*

PHAROS 8S x 9S x 9S x 9s x 8S x 9S x 9D x 9D x 9D x 9d x 8D x 8D 12 2 (1) (1) 3.13% 6x6 3.42%*

MAN O WAR 9s x 8S x 9s x 9S x 9D x 8D x 8D x 8D x 8D x 8D 10 5 (3) (2) 3.13% 6x6 2.93%*

[Nijinsky]

Sorry Des, I shouldn't have said NEVER overbreed your mare. Certainly a good example would be the second mare with a better pedigree. Although I still think he is asking too much. What I meant was it isn't wise to take a mare like the first one who's value would more than likely be under $3,000, breed it to a sire 10 times that and hope for 3 times more than the stud fee. Ain't going to happen. Unless he got a free breeding or a very good deal, he just wasted money on the stud fee.

His mistake is thinking that the sire is everything. History has proven it's usually the mare more than the sire. Not only that the sire is UNPROVEN.
Good luck is all I have to say.

[Nijinsky]

What I mean by performance is, was the mother able to run ? The siblings, the grandmother and her offspring and so on ? If the only one who could run was the sire what makes you think this foal will be able to ?
Buyers can't be that stupid The page doesn't make a buyer want to come look at the horse. Especially if he is competing in Kentucky.

He is adverticing that the sires foals have sold for $300.000 yeah out of MUCH better mares !

[ZiaLand]

Nijinsky, I'd have to disagree with you on the dam's performance. The dams of Secretariat, Man O' War and Citation (just to name a few) were all failures on the track or unraced. Mares that are huge successes on the track such as Genuine Risk are often failures at producing much of anything. The important thing to me is what the female family has produced, and if there's a history of quality stallions as broodmare sires. If there's blacktype (especially a "big horse" under the first three dams) I'll take a closer look. If there's good blacktype under the forth dam, I still might be interested.

That being said, I just picked up a mare who's a stakes winner and G1/G2SP. Sure doesn't hurt if they have some talent when it's time to negotiate the stud fee!

Laurie

[Nijinsky]

Zialand, What in this weanlings female family shows they could run ?
Black type at Turf Pardise isn't good enough for the price he is asking.

If you look at some of the other pedigree's on this site that are much BETTER they are asking more reasonable prices and they still are not sold. So why these ?
God some of the pictures these people take are horrible, better to not even put one up.
Maybe this guy was smart in that respect.


Sire InformationBy JOHANNESBURG (1999), Champion 5 times, $1,015,599, Breeders' Cup
Juvenile S. -G1, Phoenix S. -G1, Pr Morny -G1, Middle Park S. -G1,
Norfolk S. -G3, Anglesey S. -G3, 2nd Gladness S. -G3.


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1st Dam
WHATEVER WILL, by Will's Way. Placed at 2, $1,075.


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2nd Dam
PHONE THE JUDGE, by Judge Smells. Dam of 1 foal, 1 to race.


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3rd Dam
ANGLOPHONE, by Secretariat. Placed at 4 and 5 in NA, $9,784; At 2 Sent To
France. Dam of 13 foals, 5 winners--
Angie Talks. 4 wins at 3 and 6, $66,687. Dam of 5 winners, including--
IMDABOSSAU. 4 wins at 2 and 3, placed at 4, 2005, $57,140, Dwight D.
Patterson Handicap (R) (TUP, $24,000), 2nd Yavapai Downs Derby [N],
3rd Dwight D. Patterson Handicap (R) (TUP, $4,000), Top Hat S. [N].
Quietly Rated. 9 wins, 2 to 7, $64,673, 2nd A.T.B.A. Sales S. (C&g) (R)
(TUP, $11,725), Arizona Brdrs' Futurity (C&g) (R) (TUP, $10,828).
Wild Phone Call. 7 wins, 3 to 7, $72,949.
Helpontheway. 3 wins at 3 and 4, $22,448.
Barbiephone. Winner at 3 and 4, $7,817.
Easy Touch. Winner at 4, $3,385.
Secreto Son. At 2 Sent To France; Placed at 5 in Italy, $2,776.
Thursday. At 2 Sent To Italy.


B