Given Scrimshaw was recently retired to stud. I thought it might be interesting to see what the general opinion of him might be, both as a racehorse and as a commercial sire.
I will point out a couple points which I find detract or attract as a commercial prospect.
He ran well at 2... 103 Beyer.
He is a Graded winner.
He is a son of Gulch.
He has a poor race record.
He ran in all 3 Triple Crown Races.
All of his losses at age 3, (thus all his losses) came in Gr. I or Gr.II company.
Decent enough female family? ... although seems to be improving... (also same family as Mizzen Mast).
Owned by Bob and Bev Lewis, trained by DWL.
Stallion fee $6500
Standing at Millenium Farm (as opposed to one of the bigger plants).
It is said he is a really nice individual... so, I am assuming he is relatively attractive and correct. But, no offense intended, I don't take anyone's word on conformation, I have things I look for and often I find myself vehemently disagreeing with other's assessments. (Ever notice how some who are willing to "tell us everything" about the conformation of horses, tend to use the exact same comments about every horse... as if they are only looking at that particular body part... sorry for the editorialization... this is just a pet peeve...)
Looking for thoughts. Pete, perhaps your breakdown, per that other thread about Pinhooking, could be obtained?
Scrimshaw
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
Hi Kal,
I found about about Scrimshaw this morning when William Harding of Millennium Farms called me on an unrelated matter and he gushed about how Scrimshaw looked. He said, "He has some air under him". (There's a slow loading pic of Scrimshaw in the database that isn't revealing).
I've dealt with William Harding of Millennium Farm before and been impressed that his description of a stallion (Millennium Wind) was consistent with every other report I've received on him.
Your advice about evaluating conformation yourself is important. If you can't see that individual yourself, find someone with an eye you trust. Otherwise it's like buying a car that someone says is in great condition and when you get it there are dings all over that your 'advisor' says don't bother him (but they bother you).
Gulch is known for getting some real lookers and Scrimshaw sold well enough as a yearling ($125 vs a $107k average, 12th of 33) and he brought $550,000 as a 2yo in training, tops of 5 Gulch's sold that year.
I have Scrimshaw's PPs for anyone interested. I won't project him until I break down his race record. On first blush though I believe he must be taken as a brilliant 2yo who was raced over his head for much of his career. His time in winning the Lexington Coolmore was weak (but he defeated Eye Of The Tiger and Domestic Dispute) and he was distant in his Preakness 3rd (to Funny Cide).
As a 2yo he won a MdnSpWt in 1:03.80 and an allowance race in 1:08.35, that's moving.
As a sire of sires, Gulch has only produced Thunder Gulch who is a feast or famine type of sire (some very good runners from lots of foals and < 4% SW). I'll post more later on this guy.
TENPINS was retired to stud, $6,500 at Walmac. He may be a reasonable alternative to his sire who is just going bonkers. Smart Strike looks like he'll be a top 10 sire on earnings for the second straight year, maybe even top 5.
Regards,
Pete
I found about about Scrimshaw this morning when William Harding of Millennium Farms called me on an unrelated matter and he gushed about how Scrimshaw looked. He said, "He has some air under him". (There's a slow loading pic of Scrimshaw in the database that isn't revealing).
I've dealt with William Harding of Millennium Farm before and been impressed that his description of a stallion (Millennium Wind) was consistent with every other report I've received on him.
Your advice about evaluating conformation yourself is important. If you can't see that individual yourself, find someone with an eye you trust. Otherwise it's like buying a car that someone says is in great condition and when you get it there are dings all over that your 'advisor' says don't bother him (but they bother you).
Gulch is known for getting some real lookers and Scrimshaw sold well enough as a yearling ($125 vs a $107k average, 12th of 33) and he brought $550,000 as a 2yo in training, tops of 5 Gulch's sold that year.
I have Scrimshaw's PPs for anyone interested. I won't project him until I break down his race record. On first blush though I believe he must be taken as a brilliant 2yo who was raced over his head for much of his career. His time in winning the Lexington Coolmore was weak (but he defeated Eye Of The Tiger and Domestic Dispute) and he was distant in his Preakness 3rd (to Funny Cide).
As a 2yo he won a MdnSpWt in 1:03.80 and an allowance race in 1:08.35, that's moving.
As a sire of sires, Gulch has only produced Thunder Gulch who is a feast or famine type of sire (some very good runners from lots of foals and < 4% SW). I'll post more later on this guy.
TENPINS was retired to stud, $6,500 at Walmac. He may be a reasonable alternative to his sire who is just going bonkers. Smart Strike looks like he'll be a top 10 sire on earnings for the second straight year, maybe even top 5.
Regards,
Pete
I saw Scrimshaw race quite a bit in person and thought he might have been a victim of the "funk" D.W. Lukas went into as a trainer for awhile. To me, he had all the looks of a good one, yet Lukas and Overbrook have thrown a lot of good looking horses out the last few years with limited success considering the breeding.
Joe, point well taken, although Scrimshaw was owned by Bob and Bev Lewis.
Since you saw him... was he simply in over his head? Was he pushed to go beyond his "natural" distance? How would you rate him from a speed / tactical speed perspective?
I saw him race once or twice... but in big fields and I honestly don't remember much about his running style. (I do remember him being a striking, almost black horse... who looked like a champ.)
It is interesting you mention the DWL "funk". Scrimshaw is somewhat different than many of DWL's charges, in that he showed talent at 2, then seemingly disappeared for a while, reappearing at 3. Heck, many of DWL's speedier 2 yr. olds don't run past 2... anyone know why or how Scrimshaw was different?
Since you saw him... was he simply in over his head? Was he pushed to go beyond his "natural" distance? How would you rate him from a speed / tactical speed perspective?
I saw him race once or twice... but in big fields and I honestly don't remember much about his running style. (I do remember him being a striking, almost black horse... who looked like a champ.)
It is interesting you mention the DWL "funk". Scrimshaw is somewhat different than many of DWL's charges, in that he showed talent at 2, then seemingly disappeared for a while, reappearing at 3. Heck, many of DWL's speedier 2 yr. olds don't run past 2... anyone know why or how Scrimshaw was different?
Good for correcting me KAL. You are right. I'm a good running back but do fumble the ball now and then.
I play the races quite a bit and Scrimshaw was always a tough play for me. He was rather inconsistent, but as I mentioned the DW "funk" it could have been the horse was consistent and the trainer not.
He was always a nice looking individual.
I play the races quite a bit and Scrimshaw was always a tough play for me. He was rather inconsistent, but as I mentioned the DW "funk" it could have been the horse was consistent and the trainer not.
He was always a nice looking individual.
I would probably give him an "A" for durability because, if I remember correctly, D. Wayne did not have much happening then. To me it seemed this was something he was trying to win anything with, regardless if it fit the horse. Now Wayne will always disagree, but that seemed to be the case, he didn't have much else of national prominence.
Probably Gulch's lack of being a sire of sire's will speel his fate. The Thunder Gulch's to me are a very average bunch from good mares. Gulch himself was a dissapointment until Thunder Gulch. Scrimshaw will throw one very good one probably, it's up to you to try.
Probably Gulch's lack of being a sire of sire's will speel his fate. The Thunder Gulch's to me are a very average bunch from good mares. Gulch himself was a dissapointment until Thunder Gulch. Scrimshaw will throw one very good one probably, it's up to you to try.