CRIBBER

Arctic Cielo · Postby **Arctic Cielo** » Fri May 12, 2006 2:48 pm

I have a tb mare that is an awful cribber. The worst I've ever seen. Collars don't work. The only kind I haven't tried is the spike one. I have a muzzle on her now but she usually breaks it off. She can still crib with the muzzle on but not as bad. She is extremly thin too. She does not eat a whole lot. I have had her on Ulcer something (not sure on name of product). Its a powder and she gets it 2x day. I haven't seen any changes yet, but its only been 1 week. Shes on a high fat grain, 10% (triple crown) and weight builder. I give her as much as she will eat which is not much. Anyone have any other suggestions for her cribbing problem?

austique · Postby **austique** » Fri May 12, 2006 3:01 pm

You might try Quitt which is a supplement put out by Farnam that is supposed to stop cribbing.

smilton · Postby **smilton** » Fri May 12, 2006 3:46 pm

Electic wire. It is a lot of fun to watch too.

Marli · Postby **Marli** » Fri May 12, 2006 4:04 pm

My very first ottb many years ago was an incessant cribber - so much so that he sounds like your mare, who would prefer to crib versus eat.

At the time I had him boarded at a showbarn facility - the BO told me if I didn't do *something* he would have to leave. The *only* solution I found was to get him the cage (lined w/fleece) that attaches to the halter. It totally stopped his cribbing, though he threw a tantrum and refused to eat for a few days. Didn't give in and finally his stomach won over his brain!

The other thing that I've found w/a horse suspected of having ulcers is to get rid of the high fat feed and increase fiber to the diet. I feed a basic locally milled feed (10%), no molasses (per my request). Fiber can be had by way of alfalfa pellets or cubes (soaked) and beet pulp. Getting rid of the molasses and high fat reduces the necessity for the stomach to produce increased acid to break it down, and of course it's the over-production of acid that causes ulcers. If she hasn't been scoped for suspected ulcers you could go that route, although there is a chance nothing would be found. A course of GastroGuard (E$pensi$e) or the lesser alternative, Ulcer Guard may also provide her relief. Other sources to provide some healing could come from AloeVera juice or Cimetadine tabs.

I 'feel' for ya', there's nothing worse than an incessant cribber, combined with the total waste of feed.

mini's mom · Postby **mini's mom** » Sat May 13, 2006 7:34 am

hi

I have a tb mare who is a terrible cribber - I moved to her a farm with grass pasture - like for cows - lots of space & grass, clover, dandilions & electric fence - she stopped cribbing because she was so busy eating that she could not crib - when she is in her stall she cribs a little but only on the door (which has a metal plate on it) - the collars don't work, threats ect scar tactics don't work but the grass did -

hope that is of a help

mini's mom

larrygene · Postby **larrygene** » Sat May 13, 2006 8:58 am

Just an observation but most ulcer's are caused by a bacterium named H. PYLORI. A regimen of antibiotics will cure them. Talk with your vet. Best of luck. Cribbers are really a challenge.

Arctic Cielo · Postby **Arctic Cielo** » Sat May 13, 2006 9:24 am

Thanks a lot for all the responses. She stays outside almost 24/7 with access to good quality roundbales and she sitll would rather crib. I have very little grass in my pasture, enough for them to pick at but not enough to survive off of. She does wear a cage/muzzle that was described. It came with a halter but she shredded that. so i clipped it on her leather halter and she shredded that. She is finding something to get the cage off with. And she can still crib with it on. I have a hotwire on my wood fence, but she uses the water trough or feeders anyways. I think I will try the vet and maybe some antibiotics if thats what they say. I have some of those SMZ pills.

Marli · Postby **Marli** » Sat May 13, 2006 10:40 am

H.Pylori is a major culprit of ulcers. We actually lost one of our Golden Retrievers and he was diagnosed w/ulcers (secondary contributor) as his major problem was a cancerous stomach tumor that could not be removed nor treated with chemo/radiation (he was also 15 y/o).

Treating H.Pylori is done with a course of antibiotics along w/sulcrafate to coat the stomach - but the first thing is determining if infact, H.Pylori is present. Oddly enough, H.Pylori can be present in many animals (and humans) but will never cause a disturbance, it usually presents itself and the complications of ulcers if the animal/human is already in a compromized condition.

This mare does sound like a candidate to be scoped to determine if she's suffering from ulcers - in doing so at least you'd have a baseline to start treatment and possibly get her cribbing under control (by aleviating the pain and stomach tenderness). JMHO.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Sat May 13, 2006 10:45 am

Sounds like bad ulcers to me, and UlcerGuard does not CURE ulcers (only GastroGuard can do that) it is just a preventative.

Hit her with five days of Panacur or Safeguard, and 20 SMZ's morning and night for 10 days. Give her loads of rich hay and water and maybe a scoop of oats now and then, but no compound feed.

Once you have done with the SMZ's, mix organic unflavored yogurt (1pint) with a scoop of oats once a day, give her just the oats the 2nd feeding. If you can keep her out in a paddock or round pen, do.

Good luck.

aurora · Postby **aurora** » Mon May 15, 2006 8:01 am

I would take a cribber over a weaver any day. I've had my share of cribbers, only one of them was a bad one. Putting her out on grass pasture was the best thing for keeping the occurance down but of course when she came in to eat her grain, she would rather crib than eat. A Miracle Collar slowed her down just a bit but the problem with the MC was that it chaffed her esp. in the summertime when she would get sweaty underneath.

smilton · Postby **smilton** » Mon May 15, 2006 8:25 am

I like my weaver better. He dances to music and he doesn't destroy fencing. And he doesn't do it if turned out.

Arctic Cielo · Postby **Arctic Cielo** » Mon May 15, 2006 10:32 am

I have tons of SMZ pills and I started her on that. I will try the deworming. I am willing to try anything. I figure it couldn't hurt her much more than she already is. She hates a miracle collar. I have tried that and a regular one, I put them on so tight she looks like she might pass out. Instead of putting her head down to relieve the pressure she still cribs. The muzzle/cage has worked the best. Yesterday she broke the clips on it and her mouth was all bloody from cribbing. So I put stronger clips on. I stuck her in my roundpen b/c she can't brake the muzzle on anything in there. Where do I get Gastrogaurd from?
The only grass pasture I could use is a neighbors and its all barbed wire. So thats not going to work.
Sorry about your dog marli.
Thanks for the treatment madelyn.
Thanks everyone else for the tips. I will keep everyone informed on her improvement. :roll:

haemju · Postby **haemju** » Mon May 15, 2006 1:53 pm

Do yourself a big favor and check out www.chronicleforums.com and search ulcers. There is a wealth of info there concerning ulcers and their treatment. Gastroguard is expensive and if I was going to go that route I would buy the ulcergard. It is the same med, if made here in the states,except the total recommended dose is less. One tube of Ulcergard is equal to one tube of Gastrogard and costs a lot less.

Shannon · Postby **Shannon** » Mon May 15, 2006 8:34 pm

You can get your vet to make up an Omeprazole suspension (active ingrediant in Gastroguard) that is cheaper, but still costly. It really may be worth it for you to go that route off the bat as it sounds as though your mare is in big trouble. Try beet pulp or grain (crimped or steam rolled oats) mixed with apple sauce to entice her to eat (if she'll eat apples that is!). Also, easier than yougurt, cause it sounds like sje is finicky at best, she likely will not eat it, get some probiotic caplets from your natural health food store, Accidophilus, Bifidus and there is another one I can't recall. Mix several caplets (depending on reccommended dose for people, go from tehre) with apple sauce or maple syrup in a syringe, and shoot it down her throat 2x daily. It should help her some. Make sure her teeth are okay, and that her herd dynamics are not comtributing to her stress. There may be a way via your vet to get her to de-tox from her cribbing habit, maybe check with him/her? Have you painted the fences/around feeder/waterer with crib stop or cyanne pepper or anything? Hope you find a way to help her.
Best of luck.

Lei Owen · Postby **Lei Owen** » Mon May 15, 2006 10:48 pm

Never had a cribber. My son-in-law think's it is a learned habit. Personally, I think they discover the joy of cribbing when they're stalled and bored. Nevertheless, it a worrisome habit.

I'd have the vet scope her before starting any kind of medication. Just to make sure she does have ulcer's.

Several year's ago after losing an 8 week old filly to ulcer's cause by antibotic's, I bought a liter of Omeprozale suspension from my vet, for $389. (It's pink and smell's like banana's!) 2cc per 100 lb of body weight. It has a long shelf life if kept refergerated. You can purchase Probotic's in powder form from your feed store.

We have a hard keeper that we feed senior feed, 3-4 times a day. The multiple feeding's work's well for her.