Are drugs in the game really THIS bad?

[luvthegame]

All horses bleed to an extent. Yes it has a long term effect it strengthens the lungs and allows the lungs to take on much more air. Over the past few years in our racing program we have used clem up to Five days before a race, because anything closer will be detected in a post race sample and a bad test and loss of purse. To truly get the just of your horse, do an endoscopic exam and then use clem and proper training and then reexamine and you will be surprised. The million dollar horses may be examined after every race and every workout to see exactly how clean they are. At $100 to $200 this can add up but we do not take our horses respiratory track serious enough. Once we received an eight year old $200,000 earner with no form and getting beat for $5,000 claiming. No leg problems, no teeth problems. Ulcer treatment and attention to his lungs. and by the way bleeding and ulcers go hand in hand. This dude got unbeatable again and was the pride of the barn despite being the least valuable. We snuck him into the first stall and the trainer got a big laugh the next morning...

[Tucumcari]

There was crap Clenbuterol going around Louisiana last year that was killing horses. There's a specific main ingredient (not sure of the name) that, if too much is mixed into the stuff, acts like a toxin and kills - and that's what happened in Louisiana.

I remember once at Saratoga, my allergies were killing me. I stuck my pinky in a bottle of the stuff and put just a drop on my tongue - my head was spinning all day long. That stuff is STRONG!!!

I thought they had bought that stuff in Mexico or something...
It will make you shake a bit, speed up your heart rate..

[Rokeby Forever]

It's good to have you back, Tucumcari!

Heart rate? I thought my head was going to explode! I think (trying to remember) that there's menthol is the stuff, and that's what makes the stuff work. Did the Louisiana guys buy the stuff from Mexico? I think I remember that stuff coming with either a yellow or red labeled bottle, and horsemen were being warned that if the stuff didn't come with a certain label on the bottle, not to buy it.

[Tucumcari]

Thanks,
If your head was going to explode, you likely took too much. And it should be your heart doing better than double time. A drop'll do.
and I don't know that the Mexico thing is fact.
If a human takes clenbuterol without exercising shortly after, you will shake. I and many of my friends have played with it some as it is a great weightloss aid for (specifically) women. Burns fat like a good thing. If you take it pre exercise, none of the jitters happen and the excellerated heart rate are less apparent as your heart rate is raised during exercise. (Weight lifters love the stuff. Burns fat, helps you lay down muscle) WHICH might be a part of the why it is given in the mornings to horses. Sometimes the initial dose will cause a horse to break out in a sweat and get jittery. We always try to start them with a 3cc dose and gradually get them up to a 5cc standard dose. The worse the bleeder the higher the dose generally. Some will give up to 10cc as much as 2x a day. which to me is over kill and a huge waste of money... not to mention so hard on the horses heart, etc. There are so many other things one can do in conjunction.

[louis finochio]

T: Why did the vets tell me that if they didnt give inflamation drugs to those TB, there would be no racing.

Instead of using Clenbuterol to dilate the bronchials, you can use peppermint tea and lobelia in a respitory mask by putting both in the water bottle. It is natural and safer for the use of alternative medicine.

[Tucumcari]

[quote="louis finochio"]T: Why did the vets tell me that if they didnt give inflamation drugs to those TB, there would be no racing.

Which vet did you chat with?
You love to proclaim that Headly trains with hay, oats. and water (and he does) so is he not a part of racing?

Instead of using Clenbuterol to dilate the bronchials, you can use peppermint tea and lobelia in a respitory mask by putting both in the water bottle. It is natural and safer for the use of alternative medicine

Sure, in conjunction with clenbuterol

[Tiz]

Oh well, then, if weightlifters love it, it must be good for you.(and horses) Good heavens, 10CC 2X daily, racing hearts, ect, ect. The drug culture comes to Equus. Can't sleep, can't get it up, fungus under the toenails, twitchy legs, depressed, shy, and on and on, there's a pill for that! OY!

Roke, Louis may be tweaking you about the pee. I'd proceed with caution.

[Tucumcari]

Elevated heart rate versus massive pulmonary hemorrhage and death... hmmmmm...
Like I said it is overkill, and unnecessary

[Tiz]

Elevated heart rate, heart attack, flopping over the fence into the infield.

[horsenuts]

All horses bleed to an extent. Yes it has a long term effect it strengthens the lungs and allows the lungs to take on much more air. Over the past few years in our racing program we have used clem up to Five days before a race, because anything closer will be detected in a post race sample and a bad test and loss of purse. To truly get the just of your horse, do an endoscopic exam and then use clem and proper training and then reexamine and you will be surprised. The million dollar horses may be examined after every race and every workout to see exactly how clean they are. At $100 to $200 this can add up but we do not take our horses respiratory track serious enough. Once we received an eight year old $200,000 earner with no form and getting beat for $5,000 claiming. No leg problems, no teeth problems. Ulcer treatment and attention to his lungs. and by the way bleeding and ulcers go hand in hand. This dude got unbeatable again and was the pride of the barn despite being the least valuable. We snuck him into the first stall and the trainer got a big laugh the next morning...

Clenbuterol used to come in white powder form and we fed it in the feed in the evening mash. Horses with breathing problems or who were bleeders did really well.... at times tremendously well. I learned as time went on there was two kinds of clenbuterol... the "good stuff" and the run of the mill "not so much stuff". The "good stuff" was from Canada and the reason it was so good was because it had a steriod for one of its active ingredients... but that steriod got hard to get by the test barn as time went on and we fell back on the US version of Clenbuterol but it was never as effective the same way. I don't know what "version" of clenbuterol trainers are using today... I suspect the "really good trainers" are using the Canadian version but withdrawing it enough hours/days prior to post to beat the test barn. Horses on Clenbuterol not only breathed better and were less apt to bleed but also felt better/trained better... and ate better as a result of the steroid. No question regarding drugs when used properly have a HUGE effect on performance.

[TJ]

Clenbuterol or Ventipulmin Syrup which is what it's called on the track is a very powerful bronchodilator. It has actual medical uses such as horses suffering from allergy induced respiratory distress and other respiratory illness. It works like the pump sprays that people carry when they feel an allergy attack coming on--that is Albuterol, shrinks the inflammation and dilates the passage and they can breath again.
General use in a horse is to aid with airway obstructions via dilating the broncal passage. But like all things it is taken a bit further than it should be at the track. I don't like using it on horses in training everyday, as is the norm in many outfits today, because there can be very adverse effects. Too much can induce tachycardia, high blood pressure, increased pulse rate, sweating, muscle tremors, restlessness, etc. There is a seven day withdrawal in most states when using Ventipulmin Syrup, but as others have said--it isn't worth the risk.
Hey Rok, that feeling that your head was gonna explode was your blood pressure reaching the moon:>) TJ

[Rokeby Forever]

This is a great topic. I have worked and been a part of racing for ten years. What I was taught about training and Med. I am sure is totally diferent than 50 years ago and will say I think any horse that leaves a barn of an old school trainer to what you call juicers will improve greatly. I have worked as an assistant for one of the top trainers in the world and have seen gr. 1 come and go. My definition of juicings is providing the very best care money can provide. I know sounds crazy but I will dive alittle deeper. When we receive a new horse no matter what he goes through the works we will not run off of someone elses training. He will receive a lameness exam which will tell us exactly what we need to work on. He or she will be placed on an ulcer med. program. Yes every mon. morning he or she will recieve the roid of choice. Clembuterol will be in the mix. vit. injections and in feed mix. along with all this proper training. This horse typically gains weight and becomes very happy because soreness and ulcers and bleeding is gone.

At what point do you nerve everything in the barn?

[Tucumcari]

Roke.... can you hear the sternness in my voice?!

I too hate running off of someone else's training. I can do better, so give me the time and let me show you

[louis finochio]

The comments that have been posted here, are why some of the trainers reach the top in their profession and others dont. In other words dont send the boys to do the work of men.

Roke: The use of UT therapy has been used since the days of Noah. I have gone all the way and did the therapy and its health benefits are great. Most doctors know of its healing powers and they wont tell their patients of it because its free, Its called your own perfect medicine.

[Tiz]

Louis, I'm having trouble figuring you out. Natural or bring on the drugs?