California Vet's List---down 30% in one year

[Playwithfire]

Hard numbers - Del Mar Main Track entries are down this year. Are less horses passing the vet, more horses having aches and pains, or is Global Warming keeping connections from entering races?

Are they really down this year? They set an all-time handle record the other day.

[Rokeby Forever]

Example: Only one race tonight had more than 8 horses (a maiden claimer). One race had 5 entered and one had 6 entered.

[CA Michael]

Playwithfire, Im sure you understand the worthlessness of that tidbit. It's the overall picture that must be measured, not just a small slice of it.

[bdw0617]

bdw, I think you're right.

Let's go back to 6 furlong maiden claiming races being run in 1:08 3/5, $12,500 claimers running miles in 1:34 3/5, and one starter in every 100 starters breaking down. Sounds like a solution to me.

don't use the other side of the sepctrum arguement here.. show you are a grown man and talk like one


No one is saying that I need to see Breeder's Cup calibur sprint record times either


let's take a 6F race.. A high level maiden claimer should be able to get 1:11ish.. maybe 1:10 depending on the level of the compition

Not Charles Town times, 1:15ish.

Addmit it... and the question every one advoids when I ask it is... why can't we all just go to whatever the hell hollywood park has? you got decent times, it's safe and it's consistant. that's ALL i want. the only thing I did diffrently was not bet a horse until he got one over the track.. took alot of the guesswork out.

[CA Michael]

Times mean absolutely nothing except in relative terms. Horsemen understand that, and so do good handicappers. They also understand that a broken down horse was a poor investment and a lost bet.

[MidwestTrainer]

What's wrong with a deeper dirt surface? Why did they need maidens to run in 1:09 last year?

Arlington Poly has had less breakdowns than in 2006(when it was concrete), but MORE breakdowns than in 2005. So how is Poly the answer?

Luckily Del Mar is a short meet.

I think this is all political BS. I know of a Cali owner that is wishing his new two year olds weren't Cal-breds, he doesn't want to race over the synthetic. Sending his non-Cal breds east. To safe DIRT tracks.

[zinn21]

Rok, I saw a number the other day on Del Mar starters and they are up. I can't produce the quote so cannot verify. There is no question the synthetic surfaces are eliminating breakdowns. Any argument contrary is beyond the real world.

With that said, I am not a big fan of the PolyTrack surface. It's too slow and has a greater degree in time variations than other synthetic surfaces. Last night at Del Mar, with a cool overcast weather pattern, Maiden 25's were only 4/5's of a second off the current track record for six panels. Based on temperature, the wax in the surface dramatically changes the speed of the track to suit me. I like the CushionTrack and am glad Santa Anita followed Hollypark's choice.

Pure dirt tracks are fast and safe but in California that only works for the summer racing season. Fresno is lightning fast but very safe. It's a dirt surface with alot of bounce.

[JimbleBrimble]

There is no question the synthetic surfaces are eliminating breakdowns. Any argument contrary is beyond the real world.

This has to be the single most inaccurate statement of mere opinion that has ever been printed at Pedigreequery.com.

Some of these others get cold, hard facts wrong, but you managed to make an opinion clearly inaccurate, and that is no easy task.

Perhaps you didn't click on the link to the Vet's list at the beginning of this thread?

[JimbleBrimble]

if you're going to do a study, follow acceptable rules of doing so.

Perhaps you should take your own advice. The vet's list that you provided here, while both current and antiquated, cannot be used for the studies you pretend to suggest. One would need a comprehensive vet's list to draw any real conclusions, and not just a current-as-of-August-28-2007 list.

[louis finochio]

The following post is from the great trainer of the past John E. Madden.

1 advantage madden had over most other breeders was that, like tesio, he trained is owned thoroughbreds. He began this process very early at the farm, putting very light boys on his weanlings in the autumn, and then going on with them as early as May in their yearling year. Once they reached the track, they were well broken, and due to large numbers they ran with at the farm, none of them were timid or fearful of any new experiences.

Madden trained his horses by a slow legging- schedule, not giving them in the fast works until they could go a mile in 1: 50 without blowing when they pulled up. Trainer Sam Hildreth use the same method of training backwards, giving his horses all their long work 1, at a slow pace. once they were fit, Hildreth never worked a horse at full speed for more than 5 furlongs, no matter what the distance of the race.

That's how they did in the old days, by putting a foundation on a thoroughbred before the tests came. The new generation of trainers today have many cracks in their foundation and as they ask their horses for speed before the foundations in place. That's why were seen so many injuries in breakdowns as these thoroughbreds of today are not bred like those thoroughbreds of yesteryear.

[Bunty Lawless]

Hard numbers - Del Mar Main Track entries are down this year. Are less horses passing the vet, more horses having aches and pains, or is Global Warming keeping connections from entering races?

Are they really down this year? They set an all-time handle record the other day.

Handle is based upon money bet and attendance, not horses entered in races on any given day.

Del Mar is the social meet for California. Everyone wants to run there even if the track is made of quicksand.

Several horses shipped in to run and train at Del Mar and left with soft tissue injuries. Trainers don't seem to get it that they can't work their horses over that track like they do on fast dirt tracks.

A few trainers shipped in, tried the track and promptly shipped out.

A well-known large racing and breeding farm reports receiving several horses back with tibia and hind end problems. None of those trainers are listed on the vet list. Check out how many "Sick" horses are listed on the vet list for Del Mar. Is that the new injury code or is that because of the blow back from the track?

Tibia and hind end injuries were the same injuries (unpublished of course) they were having at Hollywood Park from the Cushion Track, after they dug it up and put water on it, to make it faster. All the trainer complaints had them doing similar at Del Mar.

I am dreading the Fairplex meet for horses that have been training and running on the synthetic tracks. The harder surface and the tight turns have me holding my breath.

A warning to horsemen and synthetic surfaces:

Do not work or run your horses on the Del Mar track with long toes. Suspensory and/or tendon injuries will likely be the result.

Then, there is this paragraph in yesterdays DRF:

Sip One for Mom retired

Sip One for Mom, the winner of the 2006 Solana Beach Handicap, has been retired after suffering a recurrence of a sesamoid injury, according to trainer Jorge Gutierrez.

The injury first occurred last fall. Sip One for Mom was entered for Saturday's Solana Beach Handicap but did not start after the injury was detected earlier in the day. Sip One for Mom, 5, won 3 of 19 starts and $219,766.

A decision on breeding plans will be made in coming months, according to Montie Wickcliffe, farm manager for owner Ben Warren.

"She's all through," Wickcliffe said. "She'll be a broodmare."

Gutierrez said his stable had a rough day on Saturday, losing four horses to injury. None was euthanized. Aside from Sip One for Mom, he said he had two horses suffer suspensory injuries and one suffered a tendon injury. All were shipped out of Del Mar.

Interestingly, none of Gutierrez horses show up on Vet's List through yesterday. It will be interesting to see if they ever do. Should be quite telling as to how accurate and representative of all the racetrack injuries, the vet list really is.

[Sysonby]

Interesting post. I know another horse that broke down over the weekend over the Polytrack and is headed for surgery. Nope, not on the list. I wonder how many others there are.

[Tucumcari]

The numbers are many. This is so typical of what we are seeing. Horse wins, Gets it's picture taken, goes to the test barn, starts to cool out..... and as the adrenaline begins to wear off the horse starts to limp, the equine ambulance gets called, the horse loaded and taken back to the barn to a stall (if unable to walk) to cool out. Tested.... AND then and only then is there anything one can to to help a horse in pain. Can't treat it to help with pain, sedate to help it cool out, etc THIS is so incredibly typical! THE one thing this track allows us is to get them back to the barn rather than them swinging a leg. BUT if you think for a second that horses are safe and all coming out of a race in one piece, you are fooled. That is so not the case.

[louis finochio]

With all these different track surfaces, a trainer has to adjust and train differently for each different surface.

when Santa Anita was running their winter meet dirt surface the thoroughbreds that ship in to run at Santa Anita that were stable at Hollywood Park and they were also-rans at Santa Anita as the dirt surface was not the same as Hollywood Park's cushion track.

The trainers had to train differently at Hollywood Park so there thoroughbreds would be competitive at Santa Anita. Each track surface requires different muscles being used to handle each surface. That's why many hind end injuries are happening at Hollywood Park.

del Mar is a difference surface than Hollywood Park or Santa Anita and the thoroughbreds will have problems in different areas. It would be best if Del Mar will install a cushion track to have all the thoroughbreds on the same running surface then the thoroughbreds were not have to adjust to a different surface when the next track opens.

[MidwestTrainer]

It's the same as here. A horse was claimed from my friend and perfectly sound. The next start she shattered her sesamoids, but made in back to the test barn before anything was noticed. How does this happen?

Tons are shattering sesamoids, what do you think is causing this injury?