i dont' like this

[Prairie]

Now go watch Secretariat, Seattle Slew and Affirmed win the Belmont on youtube, or even watch Risen Star and Easy Goer demolish their fields in the Belmont after running in the Derby and Preakness.

Don't forget Victory Gallop and Real Quiet!

[zinn21]

Funny, in post parade when Summer Bird walked by I said to myself, watch this other Birdstone horse win the Belmont. I was rooting like heck for Mine That Bird. I like the tough little gelding.

Agree with Dray, Dunkirk was impressive. He set good fractions and came back in deep stretch to grab second. I still think he's catching up.. Look for him to have a big summer in the Travers or Haskell.

Two other items, I think Borel made a tactical error not riding earlier in the card. Belmont is such a big sweeping racetrack it can easily fool you or perhaps make a jock forget how big and sweeping it is. Second, I think MTB was a little too eager and fresh. Had he settled, Borel might have timed his spurt a little better and won the race..

[bdw0617]

i had been screaming it since the preakness, MTB was th biggest play against of the year in the belmont

it's not even the fact that he hasn't raced 1 time in belmont. belmont takes YeARS to master. it's no considence most TC horses are based in NY. very, very , very rarely does a none NY based jock come in and win the belmont.

one day would not have done anything.

chip should have had a different rider from the jump.


we just saw the smarty ride, and both elliot and borel are very good riders. both are just not belmont riders.



look at the last 10 years of winners


2009 Kent D
2008 Alan Garcia, based in NY
2007 Johnny V Based in NY, beat who? a churchill rider who doesn't race on the NYRA circuit
2006 jermery rose won it but he was 15 lengths better than anyone in the race.
2005 birdstone, E prado based in NY
2004 jerry bailey based in NY
2003 Edgar Prado based in NY on
etc


you have to go back to 19999 to get a churchill or midwest based rider, in pat day. you actually had a nice little run of socal riders win the belmont for a minute there, mostly becuase they were just on better, way better horses.


but you play NY. you have to treat belmont as a different enitiy from the rest of the triple crown.

[steward]

MTB could have had a perfect ride by Borel or anyone else and it only would have gotten him close. A later run, and he may have not even caught Dunkirk at any time.

Everyone knows on this thread that MTB was not at peak form for this race. That probably happened at the KD. Had MTB been in that form yesterday, the ride by Borel would have been plenty good. He kept him in a reasonable spot all of the way around the track and, had the little gelding had more in the tank, the move around the turn would have given him a few more lengths cushion down the stretch.

It was the horse who made the decision to run too early. Borel was a passenger. Maybe it was the horse who needed a few more practice trips around the oval.

[Mahubah]

Of the top four finishers, three (including the winner) were by Belmont winners and one was out of a mare by a Belmont winner and out of a mare whose sire missed winning the Belmont by a head against one of the best of all time. Coincidence? Don't think so.

I'd like to see more distance racing, but a lot of trainers haven't the foggiest how to get a horse really fit to go a distance. Combine that with a lot of horses that are essentially miler-bred and depend on class and getting favorable trips to handle a longer distance and it's no wonder that most are staggering under the wire when asked to go ten furlongs, much less twelve.

[jrgators]

Not saying guys like pletch and the such aren't good trainers, but I would rather take a shot on a guy who seems to know his stuff and does good with a 10-12 horse barn than one that has 200 horses around the country.


I think MIne that bird is a perfect example in the sense that if mine that bird been in pletchers barn, instead of being entered in the kentucky derby, he's in a allowence optional claimer for an 80k tag after that sunland derby effort, without a second thought. he didn't make it through the grinder. it takes a hands on guy to do what they did with him. Not even saying he's th best horseman on earth, but I think having the day to day attention of your trainer, not just when you finally think you got a runner, but for his entire career, makes a hell of a difference

As a small time guy myself, I absolutely agree with this theory. Yes, these guys are good trainers, but their key is to have a good crew around them.

I personally never want more horses than I can look at and handle everyday.

I too was happy that Dunkirk ran well. Those guys of Pletchers don't "need" the money, but they like others spend a ton of money in this industry and I like to see them do well.

[wangkw]

Kidding!!!...Horses only think of running non-stop..run run run...never care which pot-bellied guy is his boss..and which bald boyish fellow
his jockey..they only react to the whip..and are oblivious of the finish line ...they never worry of breaking down in their run...never
ever wink at the purse money at stakes.. never even know the nicks they are called....never understand why sometimes flowers are
draped on their necks...so irritating to them.

It is always the rider who is in complete control. Agree ? MTB has lost belmont and he has lost to a girl girl in Preakness..he was just not
good enough there..who knows... the loss margins could have been much wider had the 2 winners raced better.

[wangkw]

[wangkw]

MTB will be retired soon ? That is not likely now... this last Saturday waterloo in belmont has probably altered the racing landscape
for himself...I guess.

After a good layoff for a couple of months, hope to see him following his father's footstep into the 10f travers in August. Then I love
to see him race one or 2 more races before attacking the yearly 10f jewel classic...MTB lost Belmont to 2 horses which are both lightly
raced and fresh. Both had skipped Preakness. ...In a way, it is not an even playing fieldSB and Dunkirk beat the system...But MTB's
last to front running style is entertaining enough, even without winning it...our tiny Derby hero will be remembered for a long time
to come.

[steward]

I'd like to see more distance racing, but a lot of trainers haven't the foggiest how to get a horse really fit to go a distance.

I think that the consensus among the various parts of the profession is that longer races are too much of a pain. The purists and the message board crowd clamor for them, but the decision is being driven by owners, trainers, and the tracks. And possibly the gamblers. The breeders would put out three-legged Martians if the market begged for them, but it's not.

For a good chunk of the 20th Century, the determination was made by sporting people whose influence dominated the sport. They were wealthy people who were trying to emulate classic racing in Europe, and often had racing interests there. That's only a memory. The American situation is more like what happened earlier in the 20th Century when NY racing was gone. The business scattered to the 4 winds, and runners ran twice a week in sprints. I'm researching one of the tracks that sprouted in my area then, and the turf commentator used by the newspaper referred to 8 and 9 furlong races as "marathons." The sport was primarily a gambling vehicle even for the participants, and commercialism trumped sporting interests.

[Twingirl]

MTB has lost belmont and he has lost to a girl girl in Preakness..he was just not good enough

It appears nobody else, other than MTB, was good enough to not only run in all three races (other than FP), but to be in the money in all three races.

He didn't duck any races. And hit the board in all of 'em. Win, Place, Show.

Can't take that away from him.

[reese]

belmont park, 12F Grade 1 on dirt that's been packed down to the brink.

lots of horses will be taking an extended vacation after this race

The EXACT opposite of the opinion of two jockey who rode at Belmont Saturday.

[bdw0617]

belmont park, 12F Grade 1 on dirt that's been packed down to the brink.

lots of horses will be taking an extended vacation after this race

The EXACT opposite of the opinion of two jockey who rode at Belmont Saturday.

actually, ESPN interviewed a jockey before the i think 2nd race, might have been kent Dk don't remember who and he or someone said that the track was packed down becuase of the downpour of rain that had been there the last weke

i didnt' make this post up out of thin air, it was prompted by something that was said on espn

[wangkw]

MTB has lost belmont and he has lost to a girl girl in Preakness..he was just not good enough

It appears nobody else, other than MTB, was good enough to not only run in all three races (other than FP), but to be in the money in all three races.

He didn't duck any races. And hit the board in all of 'em. Win, Place, Show.

Can't take that away from him.

Taking part in all 3 in succession all within about a month is sporting (or his connections are)...and finished in the money in all 3 has proved
his worth....no doubt about that..but MTB was just not good enough to be the 12th guy in history...in Derby, he was actually not the thing to
beat, and in Preakness, he was in RA's shadow before and after the gate. What kind of TC he would be if he had made it ? I know Most
people believed he was a surprise loser in Preakness but not a surprise winner in Derby. I called that preoccupation for lack of better words.

The system fault in the TC affair everywhere is the same....for there are ways to beat the system... unfortunately not for winning it, but to
ruin any horse's (or its trainer's) chance to make it..both SB and Dunkirk were sidelined in the P to stay fresh....to both their connections
..it was mission accomplished.

That is racing.

[winds]

My take on the TC.........first, we did have a casualty in Dunkirk, though thank God it's not life threatening and he should return for more racing. Though I don't like it was his 5th start that he got hurt..........

I think the schedule is why the TC is the test of champions and should remain exactly the way it is. What do we want a TC winner every year? No, that's what makes the winners of it so GREAT.

Mine That Bird is a heck of a horse and it sounds like he's going to get some time off, if anything for the human connections to get some rest. He's a gelding so I'm sure he's going to be around for a long time.

Calvin should have ridden at Belmont before he rode in the Belmont. It's a different track than any other and he should have learned it's nuances before he rode in the big race. Even though I thought that before the race, it's hindsight now.

So, that's it. It was a good race, Birdstone came out of the TC series great and for that I'm happy. I want to see more stamina being bred into our horses. I love distance races and I also love turf races, I guess that makes me out of the loop.........

winds