Will we have too many Bernardini's?

[TJ]

Hi Tj- Where did you get your stats?
Congrats didn't get 200 mares covered in 2012....http://www.jockeyclub.com/information.a ... B&letter=C
Giants Causway got 166 and so on..Aflet Alex got 96

Not trying to start a fight here but where did you get your numbers?

I saw that with Congrats and I was like huh? Malibu Moon is way better IMO and he got 148.
K

Hi Karen,
Thank you for pointing that out. Below are the same statistics for your 2012 report you posted above. In the interest of saving a little time....only sires covering 130 or more mares will be noted. There are a whole new list of favorite sons showing up:>) Thanks again K, any spelling or content error here would also be appreciated. Take note, Malibu Moon did beat out Congrats on this go round:>) TJ

Cape Blanco 220
Scat Daddy 217
Kitten's Joy 213
Uncle Mo 211
Wilburn 169 (a son of Bernardini)
Majestic Warrior 167
Giant's Causeway 166
Freud 161
Archarcharch 159
Hard Spun 154
Colonel John 152
Harlan's Holiday 150
High Cotton 150
Bernardini 148
Gio Ponte 148
Malibu Moon 148
Leroidesanimaux 147
Discreet Cat 145
Tiz Wonderful 143
Paddy O'Prado 142
Proud Citizen 142
Big Brown 141
Lemon Drop Kid 141
Medaglia d'Oro 140
Bellamy Road 140
Candy Ride 139
Mineshaft 137
Hat Trick 134
City Zip 134
Tap The Vault 133
Drosselmeyer 132
Flower Alley 132
Congrats 131
First Dude 131
Smart Strike 130

[karenkarenn]

It will be interesting to see the Cape Blanco foals.

[FOS]

hi TJ

...
Back to Bernardini...there's a Bernardini 2-year-old colt (for what it's worth, the result of a $60k [plus tax of course] stud fee) that appears to me to be potentially VERY special. I do NOT expect to see him at the racetrack 'til late this year, and it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't start until his 3-year-old year (2014). He's a very tall horse (I'm sensing he'll mature to be in the 17HH category), but he's no baby huey; rather he's a big guy, with plenty of bone, and lots of maturing to do; and he's evolving to be quite the athletic type and fluid mover.

He strikes me as one that just may have what it takes to be very special...and (if that's the case), I would not be surprised if he developed into a classics contender in 2014. No rush, patience patience patience...management management management...plus (of course) the necessary measure of luck .

Best to ya.

Respectfully

Hi FOS,
Glad to see your post...hope you are well. I hope this horse you're talking about is yours:>) Best Wishes, TJ

Regardless the ownership...I find him extremely interesting.

For starters, I cannot recall the last time (if ever) I saw a 2-year-old thoroughbred (at this time of year anyway) taller than this guy. The extremely interesting part though (to me), is that for such a tall, leggy guy, he has a balance/proportion and athletic grace and fluid action that speaks volumes...to me anyway.

And if that's not enough, he seems cool, calm and quite relaxed/laid back, yet alert and sharp...with a look-of-eagles presence about him. Maybe it's a youthful look-of-eagles, but (to my eyes) a look-of-eagles nonetheless.

Sometimes they can fool ya...but this colt, at this time, seems to be quite the package.

We'll see how he matures and all evolves.

Best to ya TJ...

...always.

Respectfully

[TJ]

hi TJ

...
Back to Bernardini...there's a Bernardini 2-year-old colt (for what it's worth, the result of a $60k [plus tax of course] stud fee) that appears to me to be potentially VERY special. I do NOT expect to see him at the racetrack 'til late this year, and it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't start until his 3-year-old year (2014). He's a very tall horse (I'm sensing he'll mature to be in the 17HH category), but he's no baby huey; rather he's a big guy, with plenty of bone, and lots of maturing to do; and he's evolving to be quite the athletic type and fluid mover.

He strikes me as one that just may have what it takes to be very special...and (if that's the case), I would not be surprised if he developed into a classics contender in 2014. No rush, patience patience patience...management management management...plus (of course) the necessary measure of luck .

Best to ya.

Respectfully

Hi FOS,
Glad to see your post...hope you are well. I hope this horse you're talking about is yours:>) Best Wishes, TJ

Regardless the ownership...I find him extremely interesting.

For starters, I cannot recall the last time (if ever) I saw a 2-year-old thoroughbred (at this time of year anyway) taller than this guy. The extremely interesting part though (to me), is that for such a tall, leggy guy, he has a balance/proportion and athletic grace and fluid action that speaks volumes...to me anyway.

And if that's not enough, he seems cool, calm and quite relaxed/laid back, yet alert and sharp...with a look-of-eagles presence about him. Maybe it's a youthful look-of-eagles, but (to my eyes) a look-of-eagles nonetheless.

Sometimes they can fool ya...but this colt, at this time, seems to be quite the package.

We'll see how he matures and all evolves.

Best to ya TJ...

...always.

Respectfully

Hi FOS,
Here's hoping he's everything and more when he gets to the races. Keep us posted. TJ

[Sysonby]

Getting back to the original topic, I am not sure why anyone worries about elite stallions getting too much opportunity. They are elite stallions- that's why they are popular.

[dublino]

Define an Elite Stallion, great results on the track or the sales ring?

[starlitlaughter]

25K horses a year? That's very sad, I thought the numbers were said to have been going down a bit.

The TB numbers have gone down in the last couple of years. People are quick to blame the TB industry for high population numbers, however, the AQHA reported 75,255 new horse registrations in 2012. As someone else stated above, TBs accumulate for a small percentage of horses sent down the slaughter pipeline. I am hopeful that the recent revival of OTTB classes at major horse shows will continue to make the breed more popular for second careers.

150 mares a year is 100 more than my likening.
I would like it to go back to the old days were stallions covered less than 50 mares a year and no shuttling also.
Take Frankel as an example he is only covering 40 G1 winning mares or producers the rest are also rans.

Dublino - I've always enjoyed reading your informative posts and replies. I would like to see the industry get back to what it used to be about - racing, and not the commercialized breeding and inflated stud books that have become so popular.


As for the high number of Bernardini foals being born - they will weed themselves out eventually. Just like the Storm Cats, the Northern Dancers, the Seattle Slews...

[Tairaterces]

I agree if Barbaro hadn't broken down Bernardini wouldn't have won his Preakness.

Invasor isn't have the sire he was a runner.

Only for Sheikh Hamdans wealth he would have been banished from Kentucky.

150 mares a year is 100 more than my likening.

I would like it to go back to the old days were stallions covered less than 50 mares a year and no shuttling also.

Take Frankel as an example he is only covering 40 G1 winning mares or producers the rest are also rans.

Like

[LB]

I agree if Barbaro hadn't broken down Bernardini wouldn't have won his Preakness.

Invasor isn't have the sire he was a runner.

Only for Sheikh Hamdans wealth he would have been banished from Kentucky.

150 mares a year is 100 more than my likening.

I would like it to go back to the old days were stallions covered less than 50 mares a year and no shuttling also.

Take Frankel as an example he is only covering 40 G1 winning mares or producers the rest are also rans.

Like

Going back to the days of 50 mare books would put most small breeders out of business very quickly. First, prices for top stallions would go through the roof. And second, with books that restricted, seasons would only be available to friends of the stallion owners or to those breeders who were able to supply the stud farm with incentives (10-20 mares to go to their lesser stallions in order to awarded a season or two to the good horse.)

Forced to breed their good mares only to lesser horses, I suspect most small breeders would sell their mares to the stallion owners and leave the businees. I know I would.

Within 2-3 years, all the good breeding stock would be controlled by a very small number of people. Maybe you think that's better than the system we have now, but I prefer diversity myself.

[dublino]

Within 2-3 years, all the good breeding stock would be controlled by a very small number of people. Maybe you think that's better than the system we have now, but I prefer diversity myself.

So before 200 mares a year per stallion became the norm there were no small breeders???????

High books of mares for stallions seems to have made the small breeder lazy looking for success in the sales ring rather than on the racetrack.

Small breeders have forgotten there is nothing more commercial than success.

[erhrdt3]

25K horses a year? That's very sad, I thought the numbers were said to have been going down a bit.

The TB numbers have gone down in the last couple of years. People are quick to blame the TB industry for high population numbers, however, the AQHA reported 75,255 new horse registrations in 2012. As someone else stated above, TBs accumulate for a small percentage of horses sent down the slaughter pipeline. I am hopeful that the recent revival of OTTB classes at major horse shows will continue to make the breed more popular for second careers.

150 mares a year is 100 more than my likening.
I would like it to go back to the old days were stallions covered less than 50 mares a year and no shuttling also.
Take Frankel as an example he is only covering 40 G1 winning mares or producers the rest are also rans.

Dublino - I've always enjoyed reading your informative posts and replies. I would like to see the industry get back to what it used to be about - racing, and not the commercialized breeding and inflated stud books that have become so popular.


As for the high number of Bernardini foals being born - they will weed themselves out eventually. Just like the Storm Cats, the Northern Dancers, the Seattle Slews...

Well, as I have been so wonderfully reminded in the past, this is the TB forum and we are speaking of them. Where WILL the "weed outs" go???? That's the issue, and the major problem of this overbreeding. Oh my! An unbred mare?! Better get her jumped by any stallion we can get to. That is wrong. Dublino is so correct, lower numbers for every stallion. Then we won't have to deal with the horrible thought of the slaughter houses re-opening. I fought steady and hard, stood in front of big trucks to stop the one in IL from operating and with the great help of our political reps who supported our thoughts, they showed up as well. But yet everyone has got to keep breed breed breeding. And 'weed' them out. Money hungry, that's all that says. I would like to see an additional amount of money be added to EVERY registration to go towards the retired TB's and maybe that will make people start to care and it will help the wonderful places that help these great animals.

Dublino, Happy Late St. Patty's Day my friend!!!! You are a cool dude and say it like it is and I appreciate you!

[TJ]

The ban on horse slaughter for human consumption has been lifted under the current administration in the USA. Although as this article states, most Americans aren't biting:>) http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02 ... -bite?lite
Worse yet, in Europe they might be serving Bernardini Burgers unbeknownst to their people. Before anyone gets up in arms, that was a joke....but horse meat fraud is widespread in Europe according to this article. TJ
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013 ... owing?lite

[erhrdt3]

Not to get into politics but the current adminstration of this country needs to all be fired. Can you say 27 million sent to Moracco to help them study the way they make their own clay pots?! And what would that money do to help people and animals both. In our OWN country.

Anyway, yes, I heard that story on the news about horse meat possibly getting into hamburger. That's why I do not eat red meat...ugh

I sincerely hope that those who care contact their local and state Reps to not open those plants! If people would stop breeding them so damned much we would not have that problem in the first place.

Thank you for the info TJ

[xfactor fan]

I'd like to avoid the entire cultural taboo issue of what kind of meat we all eat to concentrate on the economics.

How many horses can the US economy support? Are there places for 100,000 --200,000 or 500? And if there is an oversupply of horses, what are the options?

Turning horses loose on the freeway to be killed, or letting them starve don't seem to be very good solutions.

The hard facts are that the US economy has moved from rural to urban, and most of those working horses no longer have jobs. This leaves recreation--sporting, racing, showing. How big is this market? How many horses a year can it absorb? And what should happen to the excess?

It would be nice if folks would put effort into solving the fundamental problem of excess horses, which would eliminate the need for horse slaughter.

[Sylvie Hebert]

x-factor fan I like your question.Yes how many horses can we support and absorb?I personally have a total of 3 mares,one 24 yo,one 18 and the new one 12 yo.I also have 2 retired ponyhorses to care for. I know I cannot "absorb" or support too many so I do not plan on breeding all 3 every year.Well,one is going to have one last foal for my personal use in 2014 if she can otherwise retired anyway.Both others will be bred this year while next year I plan on having one left to breed and that's it.I do not want to accumulate horses and find out I cannot give them the best.Why can't people do the same,only breed the best for YOU and what YOU can take care of...No point in breeding rejects in astronomical numbers,feed,vet,farrier and all are expensive and as said who will take care of those?what is the point of producing for the killers?Or producing unsound or slow horses year after year?It is a fact that there is less and less NEED for them and less and less venues to place them.And with the costs of everything who wants expensive useless pets?Big farms sponsered by the very rich are becoming fewer as the new generations show less interest in racing,and smaller farms run with the sweat and hard work of regular people are suffering a lot. It cannot go on like that eternally,those who really love the game and it's participants including horses have to sit down and plan and rethink all of it.