Interview with Maggi Moss

[Foggytrip]

Rock, you know Mott trains mostly grass horses which tend to stay sound longer.


I generally dont like 2yo racing, but if I remember correctly Scat Daddy won the hopeful, and he beat a very nice horse in Tueflesberg. He was then campaigned to obviously win a grade 1 as a 3yo. Infact Im sure his page will read G1 winner at 2 and 3, which he is. Do you think hes a legitiment G1 calibur horse? To me thats a perfect example of Todd really doing a good job. Keeping that horse around long enough, and keeping him sound enough to become a stallion.

[Rokeby Forever]

Was Cigar a grass horse?

Do I think Scat Daddy is a legitimate Grade 1 horse? I'm a dinosaur to the Rokeby days when Java Gold, Hero's Honor, and Winter's Tale were legitimate Grade 1 horses, if that answers your question. Today, Political Force is now a "legitimate" Grade 1 horse because he won one.

How do you evaluate the job done with Chapel Royal? One of the best horses ever bred by the fine Ocala Stud and he didn't race at three. Now, he was a Grade 1 winner at age 2 and he's getting mares like crazy (Coolmore at its best), but did Todd Pletcher do anything with that horse that 1,000 other trainers couldn't?

Let's take Harlington. He's now 5 years old, again set back with problems, and still looking for a Grade 1 before he retires. He's had all of 8 starts as a five year old. Has Todd Pletcher done anything with him that any other trainer couldn't?

Some say that Pletcher is under pressure to perform, - how about every other trainer with nutty owners? The difference is that Pletcher has replacement horses and other trainers don't. The small guy that claims a $25,000 horse and might lose an owner if it doesn't pan out is under more pressure, wouldn't you agree?

What can I say? I'd take Allen Jerkens over any trainer alive or dead. Even in this day of fragile horses/crappy help/vets, he's still winning Graded stakes with just about any kind of stock.

[Foggytrip]

I dont think Scat Daddy is a legitiment Grade 1 horse, thats why I use him as an example of squeezing the lemon

Chapel Royal I think would have been better suited to let grow into himself and raced as a 3yo. Had he ran past his 2yo season Im sure we would have seen him be successful in Todd's care.

Harlington has been crippled since he began his career. I dont think anyone could have done anything more with him.

I do agree that small trainers are under intense pressure to deliver results. This is a tough business, if you do not deliver, you will be replaced. I also agree that Jerkens is a master.

[adrienne]

that she has no tolerance for trainers who cheat or use drugs and it is unacceptable to her.

And she also had NO idea that retired horses ever ended up in the slaughterhouse.

I suspect she is a very smart lady, I wish she would start acting that way.

~Adrienne

[bdw0617]

I dont think Scat Daddy is a legitiment Grade 1 horse, thats why I use him as an example of squeezing the lemon

Chapel Royal I think would have been better suited to let grow into himself and raced as a 3yo. Had he ran past his 2yo season Im sure we would have seen him be successful in Todd's care.

Harlington has been crippled since he began his career. I dont think anyone could have done anything more with him.

I do agree that small trainers are under intense pressure to deliver results. This is a tough business, if you do not deliver, you will be replaced. I also agree that Jerkens is a master.

actually, and this my honest opinion.... scat daddy, if was healthy, was probalby the best 3YO in the country this year.

He never got the credit that was due to him. he did everything was asked of him and then some. He won 2 Grade 1s and 2 Grade 2's and a Grade 3 BEFRORE the derby. Going into the derby he had the fastest mile and 1/8th time of any 3yo at 1:49 FLAT. Curlin in his runaway win, and I love curlin, did it in 12:50 and 3.. that's almost a 2 second difference.

No, scat daddies problem was NEVER talent. it was his damn feet. He was Humpty Humpty. hands down better than any ohter 3YO colt that T Pletch had. circular Quay is a late running sprinter at best. Sam P is an allowence horse. Cowtown Cat...nuff said. Ravel showed SOME talent but who did he beat? i actually think that, looking at his owners, and pletcher, their whole goal was to get him to the derby. there was no long term drawn out plan for that horse. they figured out a way to manage his feet problems for a year and now that his stud career is already etched in stone, they said the hell with it. But talent? He could run long, he was tactical and fast. what more do you want?

I'm not going to blame him because his trainer, who couldn't hold together a brick wall, couldn't mange the horse.

[bdw0617]

that she has no tolerance for trainers who cheat or use drugs and it is unacceptable to her.

And she also had NO idea that retired horses ever ended up in the slaughterhouse.

I suspect she is a very smart lady, I wish she would start acting that way.

~Adrienne

she was a laywer.. you know what they say about them

[Foggytrip]

I dont think Scat Daddy was a top 20 three year old. They retired him before he showed how mediocre he really was, which is a great move. Why run on when you have proven precosity, are a multiple G1 winner, and a millionaire. Hes probably a cut below the rest of this extremely deep 3yo crop. It would have deminished his legacy as a stallion had he ran the remainder of the year. As it stands now, the smoke and mirrors make him very commercial, he was never PROVEN to be mediocre.

My conclusion is Todd did a great job with the horse

[Sysonby]

she was a laywer.. you know what they say about them

I'm a lawyer too --- what do "they" say?

I heard the interview live and personally I admire Maggi Moss although I don't expect her to be popular on here. She went into the business only a few years ago using her own money earned the hard way by her own hand and by many trustworthy accounts she has prospered by being smarter than most and, yes, by being unsentimental about her horses and where to run them. This is a woman who single handedly made herself leading owner at Churchill Downs and if you don't know how tough that is, you haven't tried to do it lately. She's competing against stables with hundreds of millions of dollars at their disposal and she's beating them mainly by knowing where to run her horses so they can do good. Is the $10,000 claimer at Arlington glamorous stuff? Well, no but it's heart of the sport and my feeling is that if you can't appreciate a tough ol' claimer giving it what he's got, you really don't like horse racing.

That interview could be a primer for new owners--keep involved, surround yourself with the best people, have zero tolerance for thieves and learn how to read a condition book so you can give your horses the best chance to win.

I just thought it was pretty refreshing.

[Foggytrip]

I dont think most people realize how hard it is to win at her percentage without taking a loss on drops. Its basically unheard of. There arent many people who play the claiming game as well as her, infact I would say there are NONE.

[majxmom]

I thought most of what she said was very insightful. Her comments on CA racing were right on. I am so used to the disrespect given to CA owners that it seems normal. Then I went to Tampa Bay Downs and Gulfstream in the same week, and they fell all over me when I presented my CA license. Free entry, free program, you didn't park in the public parking, did you? Park over here next to the grandstand. Sit right here for free. Sure, you can come into the barn area and look around. WELCOME. When I go to the racing office in CA, they studiously avoid eye contact, and will absolutely ignore you forever no matter how patiently you wait at the counter. Then, when you dare to ask if someone can help you, they will upbraid you and tell you that they are busy, and you just have to wait. If they would just tell me that they will be with me in a moment...but I don't want to get off on a rant here.

Back to Maggi...I thought her comments on the tax implications of claiming and dropping were amazing. I honestly never thought about that. She said that if she claimed a horse for $50k and he didn't look like he could win, she had no problem dropping him in for $10k, because it was the only tax deduction left, and it was the overhead that kills you, not the purchase/sell price differential.

But it sounds like she runs her operation like King Leatherbury. She sits at a desk and rustles paper around in Iowa, and gets reports. What's the enjoyment of that compared to sitting in your box at Del Mar? Or on your lawn chair in Ferndale? I think she's missing out.

[bdw0617]

I dont think Scat Daddy was a top 20 three year old. They retired him before he showed how mediocre he really was, which is a great move. Why run on when you have proven procosity, are a multiple G1 winner, and a millionaire. Hes probably a cut below the rest of this extremely deep 3yo crop. It would have deminished his legacy as a stallion had he ran the remainder of the year. As it stands now, the smoke and mirrors make him very commercial, he was never PROVEN to be mediocre.

My conclusion is Todd did a great job with the horse

okay no you are talking out of your ass.

I can argue with people when they use facts to backup their statements, but if you want to just start making arguements because you don' tlike the horse or he beat your out of an exacta or something, i can't keep up.

A horse that won 2 Grade 1's, 2 Grade 2's in less than a year, is NOT IN YOUR TOP 20

that might be the dumbest statement I have heard all year.

If you wanted to say he wasn't that good, Okay, I can listen. But you just showed your true colors and showed how much you really know. Going into the derby there were only 4 horses in the country the age of 3 that had ever earned a (legit) 100 Beyer.

Curlin
Street Sense
Magnificence
Scat Daddy


Only one horse did it more than once


Scat Daddy


I rest my case..

[bdw0617]

also, to prove how idiotic your post was, why couldn't he do a similar job with Cowtown Cat, Any Given Saturday, Notional & Sam P

Scat Daddy was his ONLY male grade 1 winning 3YO.

Circular Quay hasn't been the same horse since he was 2. Even he hasn't won a grade 1 this year.

No, Scat Daddy did what he did in SPITE of Pletch.

I believe Ravel and Any Given Saturday can be stars under the right circumstances. Deadly Dealer has Sprinting Grade 1 Ability

[Rokeby Forever]

Majxmom - her approach isn't any different than Englander's was when he was on top. What's interesting is that she was with Gary Contessa in NY for 8 or 9 years and dropped him when he started getting new clients and was trying to upgrade his stock - MM left him because she thought he was getting too big for himself and he didn't always have stalls available when she wanted to ship an out of town string to him - but it was OK for her to own horses all over the place. PS: (Others might have heard different stories, but that's the one I got)

Sysonby: I think that's what BDW meant when he made the lawyer reference. LOL!

[horsenuts]

Was Cigar a grass horse?

Do I think Scat Daddy is a legitimate Grade 1 horse? I'm a dinosaur to the Rokeby days when Java Gold, Hero's Honor, and Winter's Tale were legitimate Grade 1 horses, if that answers your question. Today, Political Force is now a "legitimate" Grade 1 horse because he won one.

How do you evaluate the job done with Chapel Royal? One of the best horses ever bred by the fine Ocala Stud and he didn't race at three. Now, he was a Grade 1 winner at age 2 and he's getting mares like crazy (Coolmore at its best), but did Todd Pletcher do anything with that horse that 1,000 other trainers couldn't?

Let's take Harlington. He's now 5 years old, again set back with problems, and still looking for a Grade 1 before he retires. He's had all of 8 starts as a five year old. Has Todd Pletcher done anything with him that any other trainer couldn't?

Some say that Pletcher is under pressure to perform, - how about every other trainer with nutty owners? The difference is that Pletcher has replacement horses and other trainers don't. The small guy that claims a $25,000 horse and might lose an owner if it doesn't pan out is under more pressure, wouldn't you agree?

What can I say? I'd take Allen Jerkens over any trainer alive or dead. Even in this day of fragile horses/crappy help/vets, he's still winning Graded stakes with just about any kind of stock.

If "small trainers" are good enough they'll get the better stock just as Pletcher has over the past 10 years. Bag on Pletcher all you want but he and Assmussen are the best with two year olds and the vast majority of breeders and owners are FAR more interested in winning Graded races as 2 and 3 year olds then as 4 year olds.


Jerkens may be a master trainer in many respects but I don't recall him ever having many top 2 or 3 year olds. All good / great trainers have various strengths. But rest assured breeders are FAR more interested in the numerous Graded stake horses that TP has won with the past year or two as 2 and 3 year olds then they are in Political Force as stallion prospects go. The BIG money is in breeding and why TP is sought out by so many high dollar owners.

[bdw0617]

thanks captain obvious

do you honestly think if say, jerkins had....... Any Given Saturday he would have the same if not better results than T pletch?

You are placing the value of a trainer in the owners who don't know a thing about horse racing. Great job.

What you fail to realize is a good trainer is the difference between say, Flower Alley and Invasor. Karien made Invasor what he is and I am convinced that under 99.9% of the other trainers, he doesn't take the BC Classic.

So focused on getting that one or maybe even 2 Grade 1 wins before the derby and failing to look a litlte more long term.. they are throwing away money.

it's not that jerkins cant win races as a 2YO.. he prefers to go a little slower to let the horses develop so than can win thier share of 2-3YO Races and still be able to race as 4-5YO's if need be.

The difference between say, Scat Daddy and let's say...I won't even use Invasor.... Premium Tap... do I even need to ask that question? Premium tap is a horse that has proven he can compete and beat the WORLD has to offer and i like Scat Daddy. And premium tap was no slouch as a 3YO either. he was just given the right time to develop.

say what you want about the sheik's... they do right by the horses and they understand the business and the game more than 90% of the people out there. 2-3YO stars are a dime a dozen. Give me a horse that has when he can race over a couple of years at a high level and compete with the absolute best the world has to offer.