Dutrow gets 15 days ...

Jenny · Postby **Jenny** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:24 pm

Just my 2 cents. I have heard that people are injecting clenbuterol (an oral drug, non injectable) right into the windpipe. Just like when they block a horses palate. That is more likely the case. Then when you get tested your levels will be high. Still cheating, no matter how you look at it.

Tucumcari · Postby **Tucumcari** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:40 pm

mikec wrote:According to Daily Racing form the acceptable limit for clenbuterol is 25 picograms/ml ; Dutrow's horse showed 41 picograms / ml.

On another note I see that Asmussen also has a new drug positive for lidocaine in Tx.

I could almost agree with Tucumari that accidents do happen, which they certainly do, but the trainer's hstory doesn't help here.

What is the owner left with when all is said & done ?

I agree his history is bad. BUT that just seems like stupidity or a foreman scared to fess up to messing up. Either way it's crappy

tinners way · Postby **tinners way** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:09 pm

Does it not amaze anyone that the same trainers are continually being caught and yet owners keep putting more and more horses into their hands. What would happen if every owner from the day of the infraction had their purses withheld. For all the talk of Jess Jackson, he certainly is not walking the walk. The penalty has to be painful for all involved with the trainer, that is the only way that if the drug rules are changed to zero tolerance there will ever be a level playing field

Tucumcari · Postby **Tucumcari** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:10 pm

They win. That's what owners want. A picture and a winning horse. Fact.

KamiBrooks · Postby **KamiBrooks** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:32 am

tinners way wrote:Does it not amaze anyone that the same trainers are continually being caught and yet owners keep putting more and more horses into their hands.

I read a good one somewhere today, can't remember where... but what if the HORSES was suspended for 4-12 months. (like bute = 4mo, cocain = 12mo)

I think that would wake owners up and get them to reading those vet bills. Especially owners who don't own a lay-up farm. Imagine a promising 2yo or 3yo thrown out to pasture for what should be their most lucrative earnings period. AND since their ruled off, their value would basically plumet. Dutrow type trainers w/many violations might look a wee bit less desirable then.

mikec · Postby **mikec** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:30 am

Yeah ; that's the deal. The penalties need to be sufficiently painful for all involved 'cause if the dog ain't got no teeth ... ignore it.

One thing though - and I'm just throwing this out there - let's assume for a bit that by way of some intervention, particularly federally mandated, the issue of performance enhancing drugs is dealt with starting in 2009 to the satisfaction of most. Now let's also assume that over the following year or two the statistics ( breakdowns, injuries etc. ) don't move much one way or the other. How do you think Congress will react assuming they don't appreciate the current stats ?

Strategic Maneuver · Postby **Strategic Maneuver** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:05 am

Been following all the threads on drug abuse and am wondering why no one has brought up the responsibility of the third party in the holy trinity of drugs in horse racing. Trainers don't inject horses (at least not legally), owners don't inject their horses with drugs, VETS inject horses. And they are the ones who are actually educated and licensed and are supposed to know if what they are doing is detrimental to the horse.

mikec · Postby **mikec** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:26 am

Hi Strategic,
I would have sworn the vets got at least an honorable mention somewhere along the line especially by myself, although I can't find it either, but I think if it hasn't been said in so many words it's certainly understood and you're right.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:17 am

I'm perhaps a bit "old school" but I believe a trainer is personally responsible for WHATEVER happens in his or her barn. After all, it happened on HIS watch.

If a trainer gets complacent and simply breezes in around 8 after the first 3-4 hours, looks over the training charts, gets an update from his or her assistant, well that trainer is not EARNING his or her money. And he or she deserves whatever happens.

I recall visiting a trainer's barn one morning when the trainer was late, even for the appointment with me at 9am. There was a cloud over the barn, they had to scratch an entry that day. That morning, the groom gave the horse clenbuterol per the horse's usual routine, unaware the horse was entered and had been on the withdrawal list. Had the horse entered and won, the trainer WOULD have deserved whatever the stewards thought appropriate punishment. It is his or her sole responsibility. The people you hire are a reflection of YOU and if you hire idiots and dumbos what does that say??

ageecee · Postby **ageecee** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:13 am

[quote="mikec"]According to Daily Racing form the acceptable limit for clenbuterol is 25 picograms/ml ; Dutrow's horse showed 41 picograms / ml.

On another note I see that Asmussen also has a new drug positive for lidocaine in Tx.

I could almost agree with Tucumari that accidents do happen, which they certainly do, but the trainer's hstory doesn't help here.

What is the owner left with when all is said & done ?[/quote]

Where is the link to his bad test in Texas? I also have heard hes got several bad tests at EVD

mikec · Postby **mikec** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:16 am

Hey Ageecee,
it's the very first article on this morning's drf.com

Strategic Maneuver · Postby **Strategic Maneuver** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:28 am

While I don't disagree with Madelyn's point that final responsibility rests with the trainer here's my point. Trainer's horse comes up with bad test, trainer fined and/or suspended, owner forfeits purse, and vet that injected drug that came up positive, ???? I realize clenbuterol is given orally, but many of the meds being discussed must either be injected or given IV so I just think we should spread the public bashing around like todays DRF on Asmussen's lidocaine positive. They always mention the owners of the horse, how about the vet that gave the lidocaine injection. And if the vet says he never gave the lidocaine then that opens a whole new bag of worms.

ageecee · Postby **ageecee** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:11 am

thanks mikec

ageecee · Postby **ageecee** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:18 am

Asmussen in trouble again. They are going to hang him here in Louisiana.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:37 am

Strategic Maneuver wrote:While I don't disagree with Madelyn's point that final responsibility rests with the trainer here's my point. Trainer's horse comes up with bad test, trainer fined and/or suspended, owner forfeits purse, and vet that injected drug that came up positive, ???? I realize clenbuterol is given orally, but many of the meds being discussed must either be injected or given IV so I just think we should spread the public bashing around like todays DRF on Asmussen's lidocaine positive. They always mention the owners of the horse, how about the vet that gave the lidocaine injection. And if the vet says he never gave the lidocaine then that opens a whole new bag of worms.

Vets are HIRED by trainers. A lot of vets won't work at the track because they feel uncomfortable with what trainers demand. One vet told me he had to hang his morals up at the stable gate on the way in and pick them back up on the way out. It is NOT the fault of the vet, it is PURELY the fault of the trainer.

Oral medications are left in the barn and it is often left up to an illiterate groom to administer them.