No need for Rachel vs Zenyatta

[Tucumcari]

It WOULD be a disservice to racing if they don't meet. RA is HOY as it stands. I have no doubt she will meet older. Their goal is to be HOY. BC doesn't establish who is the king or queen of the universe. On earnings along Z is not even in the picture.

[reenci]

First off, Rachel needs to beat older horses to even be considered one of the top fillies of all time. Until she can beat older fillies there is no point in even discussing her as "great".

Great horses race against all comers and beat them all. Period. They don't run against just their own age group.

Legends can beat everyone.......

Zenyatta needs to beat colts (3 and up) to be considered a legend. She is already "great" and in the HOF as it stands. Let's face it....she IS one of the greatest racemares in recent history. She fits nicely with the mares already in the HOF.

One horse is a poly and one horse is a dirt horse. I don't buy that great horses can run on any surface....not always.

As of right now, they are both Champions in their division. Applaud and enjoy them both for their excellence and the attention they have brought to the sport.

until RA beats older horses the point of HOY is mute.....TRUE CHAMPIONS dont need to pick their spots......run on all speed favoring tracks against her own age group......yes she beat the boys....and the jurys still out on this TC crop. as for ZENYATTA...12-0...and for the topic of beating boys.....watch come breeders cup day in the classic...which she will probably run in , if she does not get a race against RA before that.....i myself hope RA skips the TRAVERS and runs in the WOODWARD....which would bring ZENYATTA across country to clash with RA. lets be honest here people......RA wants no part of 1 1/4 miles.....she will get beat with a honest pace in it. another 100yds in the PREAKNESS and she was done. thats why i think the WOODWARD seems the right spot....this makes sure that RA wont have to go 1 1/4 miles and if she meets ZENYATTA its at 1 1/8. makes the most sense.

[bdw0617]

First off, Rachel needs to beat older horses to even be considered one of the top fillies of all time. Until she can beat older fillies there is no point in even discussing her as "great".

Great horses race against all comers and beat them all. Period. They don't run against just their own age group.

Legends can beat everyone.......

Zenyatta needs to beat colts (3 and up) to be considered a legend. She is already "great" and in the HOF as it stands. Let's face it....she IS one of the greatest racemares in recent history. She fits nicely with the mares already in the HOF.

One horse is a poly and one horse is a dirt horse. I don't buy that great horses can run on any surface....not always.

As of right now, they are both Champions in their division. Applaud and enjoy them both for their excellence and the attention they have brought to the sport.

until RA beats older horses the point of HOY is mute.....TRUE CHAMPIONS dont need to pick their spots......run on all speed favoring tracks against her own age group......yes she beat the boys....and the jurys still out on this TC crop. as for ZENYATTA...12-0...and for the topic of beating boys.....watch come breeders cup day in the classic...which she will probably run in , if she does not get a race against RA before that.....i myself hope RA skips the TRAVERS and runs in the WOODWARD....which would bring ZENYATTA across country to clash with RA. lets be honest here people......RA wants no part of 1 1/4 miles.....she will get beat with a honest pace in it. another 100yds in the PREAKNESS and she was done. thats why i think the WOODWARD seems the right spot....this makes sure that RA wont have to go 1 1/4 miles and if she meets ZENYATTA its at 1 1/8. makes the most sense.

okayi've bit my tougne and note that I'm doig ntohing more than stating facts here


1. Zenyatta is 12 and 0 for the year. however the Horse of the YEAR, and I highlight the word YEAR not the horse racing lifetime acheievement award. Zenyatta has ran 3 times this year, Rachael has ran 7. Both undefeated. Rachael has more grade 1 wins than Zenyatta has races.

2. Picking spots. that is a very... lose term. Which one is seriously picking spots? the one that goes against boys and beats them twice or the one who keeps beatng up ont he same horses she has literarly been beating for 2 years now.

Picking spots.. Rachael has ran since the beginning of the ear, becuase that's all that counts here.. at Oaklawn,Fair Grounds, Churchill, Pimlico, Belmont and Monmouth.

Zenyatta's 3 races have been at hollywood park and Del Mar, no more than what..3 hours from each other if that.



3. you are projecting outcomes. the thing about that is, it's not fair nor is it really handicapping, it's guessing. hell, who is to say that zenattas wants any part of 10 furlongs?

you say that rachael will gt ate up with an "honest pace", what if you get a pce like the one that you had sunday? I could easily say big z would not have a chance against real horses, but i'd be projecting.

the bottom line is, they need to get in the same starting gate.


I'd personally give HOY to Rachael right now with Gio Ponti getting a vry hard look espiaslly if he wins the breeders cup classic. Zenyatta has not done anything whatsoever this year but win 3 races in a row against horses that can't break a 100 beyer. And hell I like zenyatta. It's not that I dont ike zenyatta, I don't like people comparing apples to oranges and some people take horse love to an irrational level and disregard facts. big z, as marvolous as her CAREER has been has not done enough this year to be HOY.. YET. at least.

[Fair Play]

why must they meet? why a match race? They are 2 years apart, with different styles and surface preferences. Why risk a hook up and possible breakdown? in 1990 when I saw Go for Wand and Bayakoa duel and accelerate, I knew the breakdown was going to happen. Knew it. And it did. They push themselves too hard under hysterical competition.
Why can't they each be queens of their respective niches?
JMHO

I agree. I watched that horror and never got over it. I am sure rather than a "disservice to the sport", it will ruin it for many if one breaks down. I hate poly as much as Jess Jackson. I would not run my mare on if I wasn't positive she loved it. I don't think anyone who is saying they must match up has raised, trained, or paid the bills on too many good ones. Their ovaries are worth more than many's lifetime earnings. I want to see them in the shed someday.

[steward]

I don't know what it is, but I'm not being bit by any excitement about either of these two. So that a meeting is not on the top of my Wow! list.

Both are good examples of modern racing where intelligent spot-picking produces gaudier records than those of past stars. (Not complaining, I'd do it myself. It's just that the game is different.)

But that doesn't mean that these two are upper crust - I think that most fans realize that they occupy a somewhat lower tier. Thus the yawns.

[Aug27]

Neither one “floats my boat” like some from the recent past.

Rachel’s record to-date isn’t all that different from Silverbulletday’s, for example. In her 3YO year, Silverbulletday won 8 graded stakes (4 grade 1s) plus a 2nd in another grade 1. This, following her Eclipse Award winning juvenile season. (Rachel wasn't champion 2YO, was she?)

Likewise, Azeri’s 4YO season was much better than Zenyatta’s has been so far, winning 5 grade 1s and 3 grade 2s.

If either one should go on and win another 3 or 4 grade 1s, against legitimate competition without favorable pace or surface scenarios, then they'd certainly earn the right to be called "great".

In my opinion, of course.

[bdw0617]

Neither one “floats my boat” like some from the recent past.

Rachel’s record to-date isn’t all that different from Silverbulletday’s, for example. In her 3YO year, Silverbulletday won 8 graded stakes (4 grade 1s) plus a 2nd in another grade 1. This, following her Eclipse Award winning juvenile season. (Rachel wasn't champion 2YO, was she?)

Likewise, Azeri’s 4YO season was much better than Zenyatta’s has been so far, winning 5 grade 1s and 3 grade 2s.

If either one should go on and win another 3 or 4 grade 1s, against legitimate competition without favorable pace or surface scenarios, then they'd certainly earn the right to be called "great".

In my opinion, of course.

Just because lebron james is not michael jordan and just becuase payton manning is not Joe Montanna or Troy Aikman, does not mean we can't enjoy them for what they are.

Just beucase Rachael is not SBD and Big Z is not Azeri does not mean they we have to downplay the great things they have done and enjoy them. They are wonderful racemares that we are lucky to have aroud. even if they dont' stack up to some of the great ones in the past.



you know why i could care less if we have a TC winner? Beucase it won't take 10 seconds once the winner to cross the wire for someone to say "well... he's not better than Seattle Slew.. Affirmed beat alydar, look who this horse beat, no one (regardless of if he did or did not beat anyone, that is of no consiquence)".

Let's just enjoy the now and not dwell on the past.

[steward]

I think that most people agree with you. They are fun horses to watch, doing what they do on the surfaces they do best.

Any controversy seems forced, artificial, and out of proportion to the actual talent level of the ones in question.

[karenkarenn]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_ ... s_out.html

[FOS]

hi louis finochio

Will Quality Road give RA a run for her money?

What if Rachel Alexandra and Quality Road faced each other going 6 1/2 furlongs? Would Rachel Alexandra give QR a run for his money ?

Which of the two do you believe would win such a race if both showed up totally prepared, in TOP condition and ready, willing and able to deliver career best efforts...and each had a dream trip?

Would your thoughts/expectations be affected by the fact that Quality Road set a New Track Record for 6 1/2 furlongs in 1:13 2/5 (1:13.45) in Saratoga's G2-Amsterdam last week; and that, for what it's worth...QR's NTR was set in his first start back since his impressive G1-Florida Derby win and subsequent layoff.

Seems to me that if QR and RA faced each (and why not throw in Mine That Bird, Summer Bird, and other TOP runners for good measure) at a mile and a quarter...excitement and interest extraordinaire could be expected.

Best.

Respectfully

[louis finochio]

Hi FOS: some tbs run well fresh, QR seems to fit this pattern
RA will get the 5 lbs allowance if they meet. Can RA keep in top form when running against colts? QR has not danced every dance, so he will not be drained. i hope they meet, as we will see if RA is Queen of the Hop.

At 6 & one-half furlongs, i would be inclined to say the winner would break the track record again.

I have researched Z pedigree for her stamina influence, & i found that those old stamina NP sire lines are present in Z pedigree. Z has inherited her running style & stamina influence frm those stamina NP sire lines.

The speed & stamina of RA would be my choice to be victorious against Z.

[Tucumcari]

I think that most people agree with you. They are fun horses to watch, doing what they do on the surfaces they do best.

Any controversy seems forced, artificial, and out of proportion to the actual talent level of the ones in question.

Since RA has won on Poly I don't think the surface issue is valid. The fact that her owner wisely opposes the plastic is a good move.
The girls are good for the sport. RA is as good as I have seen. Granted I was in diapers when Secretariat was i action and Swale was my first Derby. They are exciting! What is disappointing is the lack of ambition to prove how good Zenyatta is on the part of her team. Rachel isn't dodging anyone, just a bad surface. They need to meet. And Z needs to get out of CA, and add up some earnings. RA is being well managed and has beaten the boys 2x including the Derby and Belmont winners. She is impressive no matter what sex she is or what generation.

[ASB]

Z has won on dirt as well.

[Tucumcari]

Exactly, so giddy up and get it on.

[Lucy]

Oaklawn must be hating their schedule right now - as the only track both mares have won over, they'd be in a unique position to arrange a race. Unfortunately for them, by the time they open, Zenyatta will be off to the shed.

Gulfstream has invited both to race in the 2010 Donn Handicap with waived entry fees, but that also may be too late for Zenyatta.