Eskendereya's Soundness

[Brogan]

Anyone could clearly see that his right ankle was bigger than his left ankle when he was in the starting gate.

Also, Velazquez had to force him to change leads midstretch.
And about 50 meters from the finish line Eskendereya abruptly changed leads again.....

These actions are Defenitely not a good sign......

this is very good information. thanks and I did not see that.

does not suprise me however.

If we have people on this forum that can diagnose ankle issues from a distance, via television, while the animal is wearing bandages, we have made a major breakthrough in veterinary science!

[bdw0617]

First a caveat - I'm no Pletcher fan and I will most likely be betting with the 0-24 trend and against Eskendereya.

Agreed - however, would you not also agree that because of how he is winning we have no idea how fast he can stop a clock?

Not much quicker I would say.
I can't see him being out in front in the Derby and lobbing along at his own pace, does he have the experience to come 3 wide the last turn and split two horses up the stretch?

I hope he wins it I do, it might stop all this nonsense about certain Sires not being able to sire a dirt horse etc.
If a horse is good enough he can run on anything.

wow.

lol, "nonsense".. HE HAS ONLY SIRED 2 GRADE 1 WINNING DIRT HORSES HIS ENTIRE TIME AT STUD

that is a FACT. lol, like he can he just chooses not to or something lol.


That is no different than saying, AP Indy can't sire Turf sprinters. That would not be a nonsense statement, AP Indy's don't really sprint and for the most part, they really don't like turf as much as dirt.

That does not make AP Indy a bad sire. It does not make giants causeway a bad sire becuase he really doesn't sire classic horses. But to point out a fact as being nonsense is just..wow

[dublino]

wow.

lol, "nonsense".. HE HAS ONLY SIRED 2 GRADE 1 WINNING DIRT HORSES HIS ENTIRE TIME AT STUD

that is a FACT. lol, like he can he just chooses not to or something lol.


That is no different than saying, AP Indy can't sire Turf sprinters. That would not be a nonsense statement, AP Indy's don't really sprint and for the most part, they really don't like turf as much as dirt.

That does not make AP Indy a bad sire. It does not make giants causeway a bad sire becuase he really doesn't sire classic horses. But to point out a fact as being nonsense is just..wow

HUH?
to most of it as I am not really following it but especially to the bold part.

How many mares have been bred to GC that would facilitate him siring a classic "dirt" horse?

[apexseal]

Anyone could clearly see that his right ankle was bigger than his left ankle when he was in the starting gate.

Also, Velazquez had to force him to change leads midstretch.
And about 50 meters from the finish line Eskendereya abruptly changed leads again.....

These actions are Defenitely not a good sign......

this is very good information. thanks and I did not see that.

does not suprise me however.

If we have people on this forum that can diagnose ankle issues from a distance, via television, while the animal is wearing bandages, we have made a major breakthrough in veterinary science!

and you may need to have your vision checked...


Oh and no one has diagnosed any medical issues (sesamoiditis, arthritis, sclerotic changes, fractures, wind puffs, etc) as you have implied.

it was just stated that it was clearly evident (as said before) the diference in size between both ankles. White bandages on a dark bay, well, they stand out on a 52" screen with a close up shot of the starting gate, although not for the blind...

and when you sum his lead change antics in the strech, then suspicion will start to mount.

When you have been a race horse owner for some time, eventually you start to develop the ability to spot things that dont look right.

Just my 2 cents.

[zinn21]

Brogan wrote:

If we have people on this forum that can diagnose ankle issues from a distance, via television, while the animal is wearing bandages, we have made a major breakthrough in veterinary science!

That's too funny!!

[Brogan]

When you have been a race horse owner for some time, eventually you start to develop the ability to spot things that dont look right.

Just my 2 cents.

I prefer to spot things, up close and in person, not from my living room.

Would 1975 count as being a race horse owner for some time?

Just my 3 cents.

[bdw0617]

wow your piss off/per post ratio is very admirable

[Brogan]

wow your piss off/per post ratio is very admirable

I find it hard, if not impossible to avoid comment on statements I find outrageous lest the uninformed think them accurate.

In my relatively short time paying attention to things written here, I've witnessed several individuals make statements that have been simply accepted without challenge when there is serious doubt to their veracity.

If you want to tell me the horse's action was off, his lead changes were mistimed and clumsy you can make a valid argument. To tell me about the relative size of his ankles from your television vantage point is folderol.

[Shammy Davis]

Brogan posted:

bdw0617 wrote:
wow your piss off/per post ratio is very admirable

I find it hard, if not impossible to avoid comment on statements I find outrageous lest the uninformed think them accurate.

In my relatively short time paying attention to things written here, I've witnessed several individuals make statements that have been simply accepted without challenge when there is serious doubt to their veracity.

If you want to tell me the horse's action was off, his lead changes were mistimed and clumsy you can make a valid argument. To tell me about the relative size of his ankles from your television vantage point is folderol.

Brogan, I'm with you on this.

[zinn21]

Brogan wrote:

To tell me about the relative size of his ankles from your television vantage point is folderol.

And with bandages on to boot....Not realistically possible.

[Brogan]

I simply stated there was a visible difference in ankle size. Clearly the white bandages helped me observe this. I reviewed the recording of the race several times and I am completely convinced that there was a difference. Never did I imlply a specific diference as in 10% larger, or anything else.

I never implied that it could have been the ankle itself that was larger, or maybe excessive cotton underneath the bandage. Just stated what I unequivocally saw.

I will simply take your comments here on as being emitted by a fool who likes to create a storm in a glass of water.

Your intent was clear to anyone that read it. Nice attempt at a backtrack, but now you're saying you observed a less than 10% size difference from your TV analysis. Where were you when they analyzed the Zapruder film?

Btw, there's only one "l" in imply and there are two "f's" in difference.

The source of the foolishness on this thread is evident.

[Shammy Davis]

We know that inbreeding to the family of Almahmoud (second dam of both Halo and Northern Dancer) has been quite successful, and Giant’s Causeway is a very good example of this, as Storm Cat is a grandson of Northern Dancer and Rahy (his damsire) is out of a mare by Halo. The pedigree of Eskendereya shows why a six-generation computer program is a good investment, as his third dam carries intensive inbreeding to the Almahmoud family as well. His third dam is by Northern Dancer himself (giving Eskendereya “balanced” inbreeding to Northern Dancer—through a son and a daughter), and while his fourth dam was sired by the stout stamina influence Ribot (winner of the 12-furlong “Arc” twice) his fifth dam is actually the mare Cosmah, she being the dam of Halo and a daughter of Almahmoud. Thus, Eskendereya is not only inbred to Northern Dancer through a son and a daughter, he is inbred to Halo’s dam, Cosmah, 6 x 5 and carries four total crosses of Almahmoud.

As the ancestors Northern Dancer, Halo, and their granddam Almahmoud get further back in pedigrees, this reinforcement strategy of crossing horses inbred to Almahmoud should continue to find success and revive their influence in classic pedigrees. My parents bred and raced Preakness winner Pine Bluff (inbred 4 x 4 to Almahmoud), and I have noticed him working well with reinforcement of Almahmoud’s genes, crossing successfully with stallions like More Than Ready (by Southern Halo—closely inbred to Almahmoud), Menifee (by Harlan—closely inbred to Almahmoud), and Jules (from the Northern Dancer family and carrying Halo in his pedigree). So, it seems to be a strategy that is paying dividends with stallions and mares already carrying inbreeding to Almahmoud.

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/categ ... ee-report/

[Shammy Davis]

Check this hypothetical out regarding the sale of Eskendereya. It is a couple of articles down from the top.

http://fmitchell07.wordpress.com/

Realistically, no one is going to make an offer if Eskendereya is not sound and realistically, the connections are not going to run him if he is not perfectly sound. No one wants to be the owner or trainer of the next Eight Belles. That is a no brainer.

[apexseal]

I simply stated there was a visible difference in ankle size. Clearly the white bandages helped me observe this. I reviewed the recording of the race several times and I am completely convinced that there was a difference. Never did I imlply a specific diference as in 10% larger, or anything else.

I never implied that it could have been the ankle itself that was larger, or maybe excessive cotton underneath the bandage. Just stated what I unequivocally saw.

I will simply take your comments here on as being emitted by a fool who likes to create a storm in a glass of water.

Nice attempt at a backtrack, but now you're saying you observed a less than 10% size difference from your TV analysis.

No backtrack, I stand by what I said. The 10% mentioned was an EXAMPLE, but again you were to slow to digest it. What a Pity. Next time, try not to make a fool out of yourself, by reading slowly, very, very slowly.

[Brogan]

[quote="apexseal"]
No backtrack, I stand by what I said. The 10% mentioned was an EXAMPLE, but again you were to slow to digest it. What a Pity. Next time, try not to make a fool out of yourself, by reading slowly, very, very slowly.

Have it your way. I think its clear who the fool is. And for the record, since I know you won't be able to resist another post, I'm done on the subject.