Opinion on weight

General racing discussion.

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madelyn
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Postby madelyn » Tue May 02, 2006 9:22 am

The public know if they bother to listen to the announcer, who will announce the "over's", Jockey changes, equipment changes, scratches, etc. etc. that happened after the programs were printed.

As an old eventer/jump rider, I hated impost because it was behind the saddle and could really effect a horse headed over jumps. We'd always rather put lead around our waists or in our pockets. But with the way jockeys ride nowadays, I would almost prefer it in the saddlecloth for flat racing, rather than hovering over the front of the withers.

Weighing in a around 100 lbs at that time, I nearly always carried weights for jumping... but was very popular as a jock for Quarter Horses :D
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....

Sam
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Postby Sam » Tue May 02, 2006 10:42 am

syndeis wrote:I understand your points. We do things to gain a competitive advantage within the rules of the sport being played.

And "Every little bit helps" whether it's been proven to actually BE an edge or not. Witness the number of horses who've NEVER bled on salix and how quick everyone was to move to those nasal strips after Lukas won the BC races.

Like I said in the very beginning, IMO and from what I've seen a 5lbs or less weight spread is negligible.

Horses do not lose races because they are carrying 125lbs. They lose because EVERYONE ELSE is carrying 110lbs.

GENERALLY speaking (which means NOT ALWAYS), I do not see a noticeable difference in performance until the weight spread reaches 6lbs. Anything under that, the spread doesn't seem to make much of difference. The same horse that loses under 115lb and giving 5lbs manages to win under 115lbs giving 5lbs against the same horses a month later.

If it were as easy as the lightest impost wins, the field lightweight would always be the betting favourite and there'd be no reason to play this BS games with 2-5lbs in the first place.

And THAT is why I think the whole thing is antiquated BS. Personally, I prefer a nice flat weight for age scale and screw all this "no race in X weeks allowed 2lbs" crap. Let the ability of the horses separate where they belong.

If the track handicappers weren't so busy kissing the top trainers' asses by assigning the lightest weight possible in order to hopefully draw them to their 'big race', I might give the system more respect because we'd see these horses dealing with a REAL weight spread that might actually affect the outcome. Instead we have pussies like Frankel the Pimp WHINING about a horse -- arguable the #2 older horse in the country -- being assigned 124lbs and co-weight with, arguably, the #1 older horse in the country because "if he wins under this now, who knows what they'll ask him to carry later in the year."

syndeis
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Postby syndeis » Tue May 02, 2006 11:44 am

Madelyn, Thanks for the insight. I dont get to the events as much as I would like. Forget some of the small things.....

I'll bet you were a good one, QH or TB.......


Sam,

Thanks for clarifying. Since this is JFW post and JFW has diasppeared it doesnt really matter if the debate continues. I wish I knew the rational for carrying the extra weight. If it were a 6lb lucky gold coin the jockey always carries when he/she wins I might change my mind.

Nessa
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Postby Nessa » Wed May 03, 2006 11:46 am

It took me a while to understand what Sam was saying. It's not so much the individual weight, but the differences in the amount of weight from top to bottom in the spread between the horses that causes the problems. I agree with Sam that there should be a weight for age thing going on because these are supposed to be top of the line horses and they don't carry as much weight as the allowance and claimers that I follow.

Horses do not lose races because they are carrying 125lbs. They lose because EVERYONE ELSE is carrying 110lbs.

This statement is a good example of it, if the other horses in the race are carrying proper weight, the 125lbs would not be the reason this horse loses.
Nu

jfw
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Disappeared for awhile

Postby jfw » Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:57 pm

How rude of me! I start a post and then don't stick around to see who replies. Actually, I just got back from my honeymoon! A whirlwind tour of the southern coast of Ireland, which of course included a stop at the Irish National Stud.

But now that the wedding plans are over, I can get back to concentrating on the important things in life, namely horseracing.

The reason that the trainer gave me for the weight overage is first off, that the rider can't go as low as 114 lbs and a few pounds over isn't going to matter. Secondly, that the rider is the same that gallops the horse in morning, so he knows the horse better than anyone.

I gave the trainer a deal, whereby I give him half of what the filly earns in lieu of a day rate. Therefore, I know he is cutting costs when/ where he can.

So the filly ran again today, carrying 117 lbs when she was eligible to carry 114. She lost 4th by a head. I know it is arbitrary, but I have to think that the 3 lbs over cost her at least a head. Just my opinion.

Sam
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Re: Disappeared for awhile

Postby Sam » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:49 pm

jfw wrote:Actually, I just got back from my honeymoon!

Congrats

jfw wrote:So the filly ran again today, carrying 117 lbs when she was eligible to carry 114. She lost 4th by a head. I know it is arbitrary, but I have to think that the 3 lbs over cost her at least a head. Just my opinion.

How much was the horse who beat her for 4th carrying?

eta

As simple as possible:

If the horse who beat you by a head today gets beaten BY you 4 weeks from now at the same weight SPREAD, are you still going to believe those three pounds are the reason you lost today?

louis finochio
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Postby louis finochio » Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:36 pm

A TB thats in super, super form, will carry his weight and give weight away far superior, than a TB that has too many hard races close together.

When a trainer gets his TB fit, he will back off his heavy training and hold his form at the same level by not over training his TB.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio