Pimlico Blames Brother Derek

[jumper77]

I don't know if I actually want to see the replays in slow-mo, but do you think they'll have whatever the Pimlico officials are watching available for those who want to see for themselves? From what you guys are saying, it sounds like they have some magical version of the race that no one else has.

And I know it's a totally different situation, but my brother put a deep gash in his leg with an 8" hunting knife without damaging his jeans at all. But it sounds like they're saying he was hit in the pastern, which would be below the wraps. Seems like that would leave a mark.


Edit: I watched it on regular speed, and it doesn't look like anyone is close enough to have hit that leg.

[Sam]

He took a bad step and any amount of analysis isn't going to stop other horses from taking a bad step and possibly breaking down regardless of if its on dirt, turf, polytrack, or breast implants.

Okay ... completely unrelated and random comment.

I'm in the middle of reading a fairly cool book on the body farm and forensic excavation/evidence gathering/entomology to determine time of death ... great pictures. Neat tricks too. Some of them I already knew though ... that was a bit unnerving. Fingerprinting a body in full rigor ... don't ask

where was I?

Oh ... anyway, the whole book is basically about the class the National Forensic Academy puts on and part of one class is in excavation ... well of course that means they have to BURY a body and leave it there for awhile before they can dig it up (one class buries, the next one excavates). Thing is, they don't bury 'fresh ones' because that would defeat the purpose of the class... I'm not going to go in to the details ... the nickname of the place should give you a fairly good idea of what it's like and what they do there.

Anyway, they go to bury this one body that's been left out to do it's thing for a few weeks ... they pick it up to put it on the gurney to move it and the implants just kind of ... slip ... out. Okay, maybe you just have to have a slightly morbid sense of humour, but I swear the way the story was relayed in this chapter ... hysterical.

Ladies ... don't do it. Seriously. Do you really want the only thing to be left of you 100 years from now to be your fake boobies?

[Sam]

Edit: I watched it on regular speed, and it doesn't look like anyone is close enough to have hit that leg.

There isn't. You can watch it from a hundred angles and slow it down to almost 1 frame a minute. There was no contact.

This is just a punk move on Pimlico's part to assign blame where there is none and to cover their own butts in case someone decides to sue.

[summerhorse]

I watched it over and over that day and there is no way that brother Derek was that close when he broke down.

[FOS]

hi austique

I watched the replay in slow mo and it was physically impossible for Brother Derek to have stepped on Barbaro and cause any injury prior to the point when he began to break down and drifted into Brother Derek's path and even then there was no contact.

Although I might be a dissenting vote...I was certain when it happened that I saw another horse make contact with Barbaro's right hind.

I jumped up at that moment and said something like 'he stepped on him.' I was certain, at least at that moment, that a horse made contact with Barbaro's right rear. I wasn't sure at the time who the stepper was but I was certain who the steppee was.

Subsequently when I saw replay after replay on TV, I never saw again what I was certain that I had seen originally.

I would like to see the Pimlico video.

I doubt that they are attempting to rewrite history...that would simply NOT fly. It is what it is.

Furthermore...I am not convinced that Alexis Solis (on Brother Derek) is/was 100% certain as to what actually happened...only 100% certain as to what he perceived happened. Maybe what I was certain I had seen what just what I perceived I had seen. Again, I would like to see the Pimlico video.

Respectfully

[mightyhijames]

we bet 4,5,6 tracks all day a couple of days a week and there is always a lot of discussion when there appears to be contact and who/who isn't coming down, etc. there's a huge difference between the race footage and what can be seen from the different angles, especially the head-on shots. i haven't seen what pimlico is looking at either but given the publicity of this accident, controversy about race surfaces being rolled hard for the fast times on major race days, racing babies, whatever, i can understand why pimlico would want to put an end to any theories that may be floating around if it casts the track itself in a bad light. and i have to think that the stewards who do this for a living day in and day out would have to be pretty sure of their conclusion before they would go public. i don't think they're trying to lay blame, i believe they're stating it for what it was, a terrible accident.

[madelyn]

This is just a punk move on Pimlico's part to assign blame where there is none and to cover their own butts in case someone decides to sue.

SUE??!! Oh for heaven's sake. All this frivolous litigation. It's about time some payback was gotten...

Recently, an orthopedic surgeon who had been sued, and exonerated, for malpractice FIVE TIMES finally had enough. He sued BACK the last lawyer that went after him and won $450K in damages, including the $50K it cost him to defend that last suit.

In another case, some big time Lexington and Cincinnati lawyers were recently sued by several of the plaintiffs they represented against a drug company. They apparently failed to pass on the money awarded in the suit. One of the lawyers claimed "poor me" and that he had nothing left from the $23.6 million he pocketed. He cited examples of things like the $100K bonus he had to pay to the law firm's kitchen help as causes of his impoverishment, and a big settlement he paid in a sexual harassment suit by a paralegal. She claims he ran around the office in his underwear, had a pullout couch in his office and tried to drag her into bed with him.

This, of course, is unrelated to Barbaro/Pimlico... but if the owners didn't like the track surface or felt it might injure their horse they could have SCRATCHED him.

[jumper77]

What about the view from the blimp? That seems like it should be a good angle to really see, as long as it was directly overhead at the time of the accident.

[Sam]

but if the owners didn't like the track surface or felt it might injure their horse they could have SCRATCHED him.

That's pretty much my thinking too, madelyn. Of course, I also think Matz should have been able to scratch the horse when he busted through the gate, but it's my understanding he doesn't have the right to make that call.

[Heidilady]

but if the owners didn't like the track surface or felt it might injure their horse they could have SCRATCHED him.

That's pretty much my thinking too, madelyn. Of course, I also think Matz should have been able to scratch the horse when he busted through the gate, but it's my understanding he doesn't have the right to make that call.

What happens to the jockey if they decide, since the trainer wouldn't be allowed to scratch and the jockey's convinced the horse shouldn't run, not to ride the horse? Would Pimlico go ape on Edgar? Don't the vets usually listen to the jockey if they insist the horse's not right and beg them to scratch?

I remember not seeing anything that struck me as odd when I tried to watch in slow motion the day of the race. I wanted to see what had happened myself but I didn't ever go 'ah ha! Brother Derek did it!' so either I missed something or it isn't obvious. I do think it's a case of Pimlico not wanting responsibility but I also think I don't remember hearing Matz or the Jacksons going off about the Pimlico track--Edgar either for that matter--in a way that made me think 'oh they're gonna sue.' It's sorta a "methinks thou dost protest too much."

[Sam]

What happens to the jockey if they decide, since the trainer wouldn't be allowed to scratch and the jockey's convinced the horse shouldn't run, not to ride the horse? Would Pimlico go ape on Edgar? Don't the vets usually listen to the jockey if they insist the horse's not right and beg them to scratch?

I believe Matz would have to find a new jock ... and I doubt everyone would turn him down.

I've seen serious late minute rider changes before (like the field is already behind the gate and loading) but I don't know why or how that call gets made.

[austique]

Everything really depends on the track vet. The rider could go back to the gate and tell the track vet, "The horse is sore and I don't want to ride him." At that time the vet would have the rider jog the horse to determine if it was sound (and some track vets are more liberal with the definition of sound than others). Then the track vet would either scratch the horse feeling the rider was right and the horse was not sound or determine the horse was sound at which time the rider can refuse to ride the horse and another rider has to be found and quickly.

It has been my experience (and it depends a bit on the standing of the rider) that if a jockey says he doesn't want to ride the horse, it will be scratched by the track vet.

Edit: Although I have seen what Sam is talking about too.

[henthorn]

I don't see what's wrong with Pimlico officials reviewing the race films to see if there is anything they can see that wasn't obvious on TV coverage. That's only natural, since it's such a high-profile breakdown.

Actually, feeling 80% sure about something is not very certain in my book.
That other 20% gives a lot of room for error. Like the man said, in football, the replay would have probably been considered inconclusive.

If 80% were all that conclusive, then there wouldn't be so many 4:5 favorites missing out on first place money!

[reenci]

who the heck cares if BD did it ? what are they going to do....sue him.?..good grief...let it go...............

[TBG]

What happened can't be changed. The Pimlico officials aren't going to be sued. Unfortunately, breakdowns happen. If Brother Derek or any other horse did clip Barbaro, it was an accident. Racing is often in tight quarters. For the sake of trying to learn what happened, watching the race frame by frame makes sense. Sometimes you can find out the cause, sometimes not. I don’t think the Pimlico officials just made something up. They may have concluded something that didn’t actually happen, but the video should be out there so that others can draw their own conclusions. If I owned Barbaro, I’d feel better knowing what the cause for his breakdown was, rather than thinking he broke down for no apparent reason. Maybe we will never know, but knowing would be better. There is no changing what happened. There is no one to blame. It happened. It would be interesting to see the video sequence that Pimlico is talking about so we could draw our own conclusions.