Playwithfire,
The increase in training costs in California are beginning to slow the inflow of lower level horses from surrounding states. We're now beginning to see established NorCal trainers moving their stock to the midwest and east coast for some or all of the racing season. Lonnie Arterburn, for example, jockeyed and trained for years in NorCal but for the last 2-3 years has been on the eastern seaboard. Wayne McDonnell, another NorCal trainer, moved his stock to Mountaineer.
Between the higher costs, high breakdown rates, stagnant purses and overall hassle of racing in CA, it's amazing that we have as many owners and trainers here as we do.
Bay Meadows/CHRB battle
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CA Michael
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Rokeby Forever
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And there's a point to putting in an $8 Million new surface to offer the same old five horse fields with horses that shouldn't be running?
What synthetics are to California racing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
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Playwithfire
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yeah, to get 6 and 7 horse field on occassion. Seriously though, they hope to replicate success at other venues have had w/ synthetics. Timely article on DRF.com
Arlington | Posted 6/20/2007, 6:41 pm
Business figures all healthy
By MARCUS HERSH
ARLINGTON HEIGHTS, Ill. - As Arlington Park enters the midsummer phase of its 2007 meet, stretching the racing week from four to five days, business trends have remained notably positive.
Through Sunday, Arlington had raced 28 days, carding 282 races, and compared with 28 similar racing days in 2006, the track has posted significant gains in ontrack handle on live races, all-sources handle on live races, and attendance. The handle figures are slightly more complicated to interpret, since Arlington generally carded nine races per day last year while running one more day per week, and has been running 10 a day during four-day weeks in 2007. But attendance figures are straightforward (the number of races per day has no bearing), and Arlington is drawing nearly 30 percent more fans on a daily basis than in 2006. And even though Arlington had raced 33 days through Father's Day last year, total attendance still is up some 44,000 over last season.
By the same token, ontrack handle on live races - the kind of bet that earns tracks and purse accounts the most money - is tracking far ahead of last year. Comparing the two sets of 28 days, ontrack handle on live races is up almost 30 percent over last year. And again, the gross figure through Sunday of $17,099,169 is ahead of last year's total of $14,355,655 after 33 racing days.
All-sources handle on Arlington races has increased by 23 percent, to $4,021,822 per day, over the 28 days last year, and even taking into account changes between seasons, Arlington still is doing well. While there have been 5 percent fewer races run through Father's Day than there were last year, total all sources handle has increased by about $5 million.
Through Sunday, the average number of starters per race sat at 8.72, compared with 7.44 through the entire 2006 meet, and 7.89 through Father's Day 2006.
Kevin Greely, Arlington's racing secretary, said that entries could decrease slightly in coming weeks because of the switch to a five-day week. The hope, however, is that the end of the Churchill Downs meet in early July will supply more horses to make up the difference. Greely said that Arlington hopes to card 48 races a week, nine on Wednesday and Thursday, and 10 Friday through Sunday.
Arlington | Posted 6/20/2007, 6:41 pm
Business figures all healthy
By MARCUS HERSH
ARLINGTON HEIGHTS, Ill. - As Arlington Park enters the midsummer phase of its 2007 meet, stretching the racing week from four to five days, business trends have remained notably positive.
Through Sunday, Arlington had raced 28 days, carding 282 races, and compared with 28 similar racing days in 2006, the track has posted significant gains in ontrack handle on live races, all-sources handle on live races, and attendance. The handle figures are slightly more complicated to interpret, since Arlington generally carded nine races per day last year while running one more day per week, and has been running 10 a day during four-day weeks in 2007. But attendance figures are straightforward (the number of races per day has no bearing), and Arlington is drawing nearly 30 percent more fans on a daily basis than in 2006. And even though Arlington had raced 33 days through Father's Day last year, total attendance still is up some 44,000 over last season.
By the same token, ontrack handle on live races - the kind of bet that earns tracks and purse accounts the most money - is tracking far ahead of last year. Comparing the two sets of 28 days, ontrack handle on live races is up almost 30 percent over last year. And again, the gross figure through Sunday of $17,099,169 is ahead of last year's total of $14,355,655 after 33 racing days.
All-sources handle on Arlington races has increased by 23 percent, to $4,021,822 per day, over the 28 days last year, and even taking into account changes between seasons, Arlington still is doing well. While there have been 5 percent fewer races run through Father's Day than there were last year, total all sources handle has increased by about $5 million.
Through Sunday, the average number of starters per race sat at 8.72, compared with 7.44 through the entire 2006 meet, and 7.89 through Father's Day 2006.
Kevin Greely, Arlington's racing secretary, said that entries could decrease slightly in coming weeks because of the switch to a five-day week. The hope, however, is that the end of the Churchill Downs meet in early July will supply more horses to make up the difference. Greely said that Arlington hopes to card 48 races a week, nine on Wednesday and Thursday, and 10 Friday through Sunday.
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MizzenMast
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Thanks Playwithfire
The evidence is overwhelming that this surface helps. Arlington was a death trap the year before they switched to synthetic.
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Rokeby Forever
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Of all the tough, durable horses that Cozzene has sired, why did you decide to call yourself Mizzen Mast?
Belmont Park is supposedly going to convert in 2008, but Elliot Spitzer has made the bidding process and negotiations such a disaster, it may never happen....but on what basis would you justify Belmont Park switching to synthetics? Horses can and do run down on the deep surface, but breakdowns are a rare occasion.
I haven't heard of a single horse that ran on the Belmont Stakes card that had a negative impact from racing that day. But, I'm sure...had something broken down on the card, the synthetic freaks would be out in full force.
The evidence is NOT overwhelming that it helps, and there's no conclusive proof that any new surface holds up over time - if anything, there's proof that it doesn't.
In my mind, it's ridiculous to install different new surfaces all over the place. Why isn't a proven-to-be safe, all weather, time tested surface developed and made uniform? Now, we have Polytrack here, synthetic there, and God knows what planned for another venue. These tracks are rushing to be "trendy" just like the folks that rushed to use the Equine nasal strips did ten years ago.
The Arabian foundation stallions ran through sand dunes. The old British mares ran around in fields of dirt, mud, and grass. From all accounts, they were pretty sound horses. Nobody needed to chop up medieval tapestries for them to run on.
Belmont Park is supposedly going to convert in 2008, but Elliot Spitzer has made the bidding process and negotiations such a disaster, it may never happen....but on what basis would you justify Belmont Park switching to synthetics? Horses can and do run down on the deep surface, but breakdowns are a rare occasion.
I haven't heard of a single horse that ran on the Belmont Stakes card that had a negative impact from racing that day. But, I'm sure...had something broken down on the card, the synthetic freaks would be out in full force.
The evidence is NOT overwhelming that it helps, and there's no conclusive proof that any new surface holds up over time - if anything, there's proof that it doesn't.
In my mind, it's ridiculous to install different new surfaces all over the place. Why isn't a proven-to-be safe, all weather, time tested surface developed and made uniform? Now, we have Polytrack here, synthetic there, and God knows what planned for another venue. These tracks are rushing to be "trendy" just like the folks that rushed to use the Equine nasal strips did ten years ago.
The Arabian foundation stallions ran through sand dunes. The old British mares ran around in fields of dirt, mud, and grass. From all accounts, they were pretty sound horses. Nobody needed to chop up medieval tapestries for them to run on.
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MizzenMast
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Mizzen Mast
I watched him win the Prix d'Guiche (Gr-III) at Longchamps. A beautiful race at a beautiful track, and a lasting memory.
re: sand dunes, dirt, mud, grass -- that's all true, and it's because no one cared about times. Part of the problem is tracks souping up their surface to generate fast times. And that's a problem that has plagued CA racing (at Hollypark) even with synthetic, and a separate problem. Turfway, same thing.
Show me a bunch of 6.5f races in 1:20 over a good/not-juiced synthetic surface and I'll show you a 100% survival rate of all the participants.
re: sand dunes, dirt, mud, grass -- that's all true, and it's because no one cared about times. Part of the problem is tracks souping up their surface to generate fast times. And that's a problem that has plagued CA racing (at Hollypark) even with synthetic, and a separate problem. Turfway, same thing.
Show me a bunch of 6.5f races in 1:20 over a good/not-juiced synthetic surface and I'll show you a 100% survival rate of all the participants.
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Rokeby Forever
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As long as these new surfaces get pounded down so tightly that a two year old filly can run a :43 half and blow out a knee, what's the point?
C'mon...Belmont Park runs fast races and you don't see horses breaking down all over the place. Even crooked Pine Island stayed sound at Belmont Park. How many other Shug horses have broken down over the years....or Mott...or even Pletcher stock? When they do have a breakdown, it's at another track.
C'mon...Belmont Park runs fast races and you don't see horses breaking down all over the place. Even crooked Pine Island stayed sound at Belmont Park. How many other Shug horses have broken down over the years....or Mott...or even Pletcher stock? When they do have a breakdown, it's at another track.
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CA Michael
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Playwithfire,
Interesting article on Arlington. Too bad they didn't include their breakdown data--no doubt it would have shown the tremendous decrease due to Polytrack. It seemed every time I watched Arlington races last year on TVG a horse or two went down. Sickening. Imagine the long term consequences of a safer racing surface---bigger fields, more investment (owners and bettors), and a better image for horse racing.
Artificial surfaces are a no-brainer.
Interesting article on Arlington. Too bad they didn't include their breakdown data--no doubt it would have shown the tremendous decrease due to Polytrack. It seemed every time I watched Arlington races last year on TVG a horse or two went down. Sickening. Imagine the long term consequences of a safer racing surface---bigger fields, more investment (owners and bettors), and a better image for horse racing.
Artificial surfaces are a no-brainer.
Convictions without Courage are worthless
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Rokeby Forever
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Playwithfire
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MIchael,
I read in Bloodhorse today that there were 2 breakdowns on the new surface thru June 15. Both were $5k Claimers. They said that was same vs. prior year,at that point of the meet but 11 breakdowns occured last year over the next 3 week period. So let's see how it holds up the rest of the meet, during hot sticky midwest summer.
Mizz and Rokeby: you are right, if they let it get packed down, it won't do any good. Belmont is deep and sandy and has been safe. maybe the dirt in california is clay or something and packs easily, at least the synthetic stuff will have a better chance to stay loose if the maintenance crew leaves it be. Its never that hot at Golden Gate so the heat shouldn't be a problem.
I read in Bloodhorse today that there were 2 breakdowns on the new surface thru June 15. Both were $5k Claimers. They said that was same vs. prior year,at that point of the meet but 11 breakdowns occured last year over the next 3 week period. So let's see how it holds up the rest of the meet, during hot sticky midwest summer.
Mizz and Rokeby: you are right, if they let it get packed down, it won't do any good. Belmont is deep and sandy and has been safe. maybe the dirt in california is clay or something and packs easily, at least the synthetic stuff will have a better chance to stay loose if the maintenance crew leaves it be. Its never that hot at Golden Gate so the heat shouldn't be a problem.
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CA Michael
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Playwithfire,
Most CA tracks are a mix of clay and sand. The fairs, including Fairplex, are primarily dirt for the simple reason that they rarely are used when it's raining. Because artificial tracks are so new, the maintenance crews are still learning about the proper amounts of water and blading needed for optimum performance. If the packing problem at Del Mar still exists, hopefully the management there will address it before the meet opens.
In terms of comparing Belmont Park and CA tracks, I'm not sure that's particularly meaningful. The materials used for dirt tracks is almost always provided from local sources, and the mixes are designed with each unique climate in mind.
Most CA tracks are a mix of clay and sand. The fairs, including Fairplex, are primarily dirt for the simple reason that they rarely are used when it's raining. Because artificial tracks are so new, the maintenance crews are still learning about the proper amounts of water and blading needed for optimum performance. If the packing problem at Del Mar still exists, hopefully the management there will address it before the meet opens.
In terms of comparing Belmont Park and CA tracks, I'm not sure that's particularly meaningful. The materials used for dirt tracks is almost always provided from local sources, and the mixes are designed with each unique climate in mind.
Convictions without Courage are worthless
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Rokeby Forever
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Unique climate?
Belmont is open from May through July and September through November. That encompasses any type of weather except snow and cold (heat, rain, cool days in the fall...). Does Del Mar get snow? How about Santa Anita or Hollywood Park? Lots of below zero at those venues?
That's the biggest BS excuse I've heard yet, Michael! You Californians want this new crap because track management can pound it down and horses can still run 1:08 sprints on it.....all in the name of "safety." Don't hand me that new surface tracks suddenly become like highways out of the blue and tracks need to learn how to handle it...they cause it!
Last spring, Keeneland was running par or below par time racing. A week before the sale, horses suddenly ran 1:09 races - and Ward's filly ran a :43 half. On under tack day, babies were working sub :21 or :21 like a it was commonplace. How did that happen , so coincidentally close to the sale? Lord...it's a miracle!!!!
Belmont is open from May through July and September through November. That encompasses any type of weather except snow and cold (heat, rain, cool days in the fall...). Does Del Mar get snow? How about Santa Anita or Hollywood Park? Lots of below zero at those venues?
That's the biggest BS excuse I've heard yet, Michael! You Californians want this new crap because track management can pound it down and horses can still run 1:08 sprints on it.....all in the name of "safety." Don't hand me that new surface tracks suddenly become like highways out of the blue and tracks need to learn how to handle it...they cause it!
Last spring, Keeneland was running par or below par time racing. A week before the sale, horses suddenly ran 1:09 races - and Ward's filly ran a :43 half. On under tack day, babies were working sub :21 or :21 like a it was commonplace. How did that happen , so coincidentally close to the sale? Lord...it's a miracle!!!!
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MizzenMast
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Wow...
I think if I were in Reno, NV, posting on a message board about horse racing at 2:49am, I'd be even more cynical than Roke.
That said, I agree FULLY that the tracks are to blame for souping up the surface for faster times. No question about it. But I maintain that synthetic surface is safer than dirt, ** all else equal **. Switching to synthetic and forcing 1:08 6f times is going to generate catastrophic results.
However, that's the subject of a different thread about track maintenance. This is about synthetic vs. dirt, and, under EQUAL conditions, synthetic is safer. The evidence supports this.
That said, I agree FULLY that the tracks are to blame for souping up the surface for faster times. No question about it. But I maintain that synthetic surface is safer than dirt, ** all else equal **. Switching to synthetic and forcing 1:08 6f times is going to generate catastrophic results.
However, that's the subject of a different thread about track maintenance. This is about synthetic vs. dirt, and, under EQUAL conditions, synthetic is safer. The evidence supports this.
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MizzenMast
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oh, 2:49am EST
11:49pm pacific. So let's call it a push on the cynicism level.
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Rokeby Forever
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Up at 2:49 AM? I'm not 17 any more! LOL!
Actually, the town is called Galena, Nevada, which is a suburb of Reno, but the Post Office still considers it Reno. Cynicism push? OK...fair enough.
I might add that Belmont is open year round to training - both the main track and training track. Those surfaces are just as safe in the winter as in the summer...no word about morning breakdowns as a common occurrence.
Where is this "evidence?" Are Ravel, Belgravia, and Notional the poster boys for it?
Actually, the town is called Galena, Nevada, which is a suburb of Reno, but the Post Office still considers it Reno. Cynicism push? OK...fair enough.
I might add that Belmont is open year round to training - both the main track and training track. Those surfaces are just as safe in the winter as in the summer...no word about morning breakdowns as a common occurrence.
Where is this "evidence?" Are Ravel, Belgravia, and Notional the poster boys for it?