California Vet's List---down 30% in one year

[louis finochio]

All these injuries and breakdowns are caused by breeding to close. I am doing a research project on those thoroughbreds that ran in all 3 Triple Crown races, and I have seen the same breeding patterns of outcrossing....

Today we are in breeding to the same foundation stallions in double and triple to the same individuals, and that causes weak underpinning. The thoroughbreds are talking to us, and telling us to outcross but nobody is listening.

Those fashion breeders' are only interested in how much money they can make by breeding to the same individuals over and over again.

[Tucumcari]

The end....

[Bunty Lawless]

It's the same as here. A horse was claimed from my friend and perfectly sound. The next start she shattered her sesamoids, but made in back to the test barn before anything was noticed. How does this happen?

Tons are shattering sesamoids, what do you think is causing this injury?

Many things can be causing sesamoid breakdowns.

Racing and training with long toes and/or bad shoeing (no foot--no horse);

Conformational defects causing weak pasterns and increased stress on the suspensories;

The horse trying to get off of pain in the joints or elsewhere on the horse;

Too many joint injections;

An unfit horse or improper warm up and/or pushing a horse when it is already out of gas;

A spot on the suspensories that goes unnoticed or the trainer knows and runs the horse anyway;

Changing racing surfaces, or training and running on a rock-hard track, usually a wet, fast track, etc.

Once in a great while it is due to taking a bad step. But usually a pre-existing vulnerability to the injury exists.

The list of possible causes is almost endless but mostly related to a trainer racing a horse that shouldn't be racing.

[Bunty Lawless]

All these injuries and breakdowns are caused by breeding to close. I am doing a research project on those thoroughbreds that ran in all 3 Triple Crown races, and I have seen the same breeding patterns of outcrossing....

I'm confused. How many of the Triple Crown runners ran or trained at Del Mar or any of the new California synthetic surfaces?

[louis finochio]

The offspring of certain stallions will have tendon problems, sesamoid problems etc. etc. on another post I said I've heard that they were going to give a profile of each thoroughbred to the new trainer who claimed a thoroughbred as far as teeth problems, joint injections, etc. etc. if this comes to pass it will give a new trainer the dos and don'ts of the thoroughbred, I see it as a positive.

[louis finochio]

I don't know how many Triple Crown runners trained at Del Mar, as I am researching the affirmed, Alydar, majestic Prince, Seattle slew, risen Star plus many many more.

When you see the change of the breed like the change of the winds it makes you dig deeper and deeper into research and that's what pushes me on. As I see the breed of today is a watered-down product of of unsoundness and fashion. You could say we are watering the weeds, and picking the flowers.

[MidwestTrainer]

It's the same as here. A horse was claimed from my friend and perfectly sound. The next start she shattered her sesamoids, but made in back to the test barn before anything was noticed. How does this happen?

Tons are shattering sesamoids, what do you think is causing this injury?

Many things can be causing sesamoid breakdowns.

Racing and training with long toes and/or bad shoeing (no foot--no horse);

Conformational defects causing weak pasterns and increased stress on the suspensories;

The horse trying to get off of pain in the joints or elsewhere on the horse;

Too many joint injections;

An unfit horse or improper warm up and/or pushing a horse when it is already out of gas;

A spot on the suspensories that goes unnoticed or the trainer knows and runs the horse anyway;

Changing racing surfaces, or training and running on a rock-hard track, usually a wet, fast track, etc.

Once in a great while it is due to taking a bad step. But usually a pre-existing vulnerability to the injury exists.

The list of possible causes is almost endless but mostly related to a trainer racing a horse that shouldn't be racing.

I understand that. My point is there is an abnormally high number of them and how are so many horses pulling up and making it back to the barn before their injury shows up, even when it is very serious.

I'll take my chances with dirt tracks, at least I know what I am dealing with it.

[ratherrapid]

we get injury reports from arlington and delmar. ok. we get little to nothing of the mechanism causing the injuries presuming there's a common denominator at all--e.g. is it just a bunch of trainers ignorning basics, or is it the track. if the track--what's up exactly, from anyone that's there?

[Tucumcari]

It is becoming a common thought that synthetics are sort of hiding injuries that wold normally show up on conventional surfaces. Maybe they are too kind to some extent.
Poly is MUCH firmer to walk over than I ever expected it to be. Cushion isn't quite as firm. There is no actual cushion to the Poly. Nor does it have a bunch of spring/bounce. It's a very dead surface(In CA and dependant upon the weather). It's kind and yet it's not. We haven't had a ton of seasamoids, but we have had a ton of "mystery" lameness. Nucscans are common as they are seemingly undetectable to an xray. IF a lameness such as this were pushed on... who knows what the outcome. Look at the pony horses at Del Mar... how many of them are lame on post parade... that in and of itself is a huge indicator of surface.
How many shoes are left on the track on a daily basis... TONS! And if you are familliar with surfaces, the number of shoes on a track are also a huge indicator of surface and how horses are or aren't getting over it. On cushion we pulled all clips off, and on Poly we are putting them right back on. Shoes are lost, spread, sprung.... etc etc every single day... I have the blacksmith on speed dial. And I do think the wax is a part of that as well as it acts like "lube" to the nails and the shoe...

[louis finochio]

are the shoes that are glued on coming off like the ones that are nailed on?

[diomed]

All these injuries and breakdowns are caused by breeding to close. I am doing a research project on those thoroughbreds that ran in all 3 Triple Crown races, and I have seen the same breeding patterns of outcrossing....

Today we are in breeding to the same foundation stallions in double and triple to the same individuals, and that causes weak underpinning. The thoroughbreds are talking to us, and telling us to outcross but nobody is listening.

Those fashion breeders' are only interested in how much money they can make by breeding to the same individuals over and over again.

Here are the winners of the TC:
Sir Barton - 4x3 to Sterling
Gallant Fox - 5x4 to Bend Or and 4x5 to St. Simon
Omaha - 4x4 Ajax and 5x5 to St. Simon(hypo mate Flying Fox with St. Simon sometime)
War Admiral-outcross in 5 gens
Whirlaway-sire and dame inbred or linebred. Whirlaway outcross in 5 gens
Assault-4x5 to Commando
Citation-5x5 Bay Ronald and 5X5x4 St. Simon
Secretariat-outcross
Seattle Slew-4x4 to Nasruallah
Affirmed-5x5 to Teddy

Those are just the winners
Near winner Spectacular Bid was inbred 3x3 to To Market and 5x5 to Blenheim
Unbridled was 4x5 to Rough n Tumble and 4x4 to the mare Aspidistra...
Hansel was 4x5 to Native Dancer and 5x5 to Nasrullah
Riva Ridge was 5x5 to the unraced and very inbred Ultimus

??

[louis finochio]

let's look get the pedigrees of both affirmed and Alydar who competed against 1 another in all the Triple Crown races in 1978.

Affirmed had 2 Crosses of ph.--- 4 crosses of fair play--- 5 crosses of Teddy--- 1 cross of Peter Pan--- 1 cross of carbine--- 1 cross of rock Sand--- 1 cross of domino--- 1 cross of Swynford. Affirmed was was line-bred 4 x 5 to Sir Galahad III----5 X 5 to Teddy.

Alydar had 2 crosses of ph.--- 3 crosses of Teddy--- 3 crosses of ben brush--- 2 crosses of swynford--- 2 crosses a fair play--- 1 cross of Bend or--- 1 cross of domino--- 1 cross of Gainsborough--- 1 cross of Peter Pan. Alydar was line-bred 4 x 4 Bull lea--- 5 x 5 blenheim II

both affirmed and Alydar have pedigrees very similar to 1 another as they were produced from and outcross mating.

today we are seeing the double and triple up of those foundations stallions from the sire line of ph. all this inbreeding is causing un- soundness, and thoroughbreds to go off their feed after a hard work or a hard race. both affirmed and Alydar are had an iron constitution that they inherited from their outcross matings.

[Tucumcari]

PLEASE!!!! Can we keep this crap to the "Inbreeding and breakdowns" thread.
I personally am so sick of this BS and don't go to that thread anymore on purpose. Again, PLEASE, I beg you.

[bdw0617]

you gotta admit.. that man has a vision

[diomed]

PLEASE!!!! Can we keep this crap to the "Inbreeding and breakdowns" thread.
I personally am so sick of this BS and don't go to that thread anymore on purpose. Again, PLEASE, I beg you.

LOL!!!
Seriously, he should make up his mind. First he said they were bred to close(inbreeding) and now he blames the "devil" himself....
Which is it?

Sorry Tucumcari.....I find the stuff hilarious.
If I stirred the pot too much, I will refrain.

Now, can someone make an analysis on changing track surfaces? I find that theory very interesting.