Santa Anita: hell in a handbasket

[Worksoplad]

"Were only cheap horses breaking down at Presque Isle? This stuff is a deathtrap!"

Well let's go back a bit. Ruffian, Charismatic, Go for Wand. Or a bit closer in time, Barbaro, Pine Island, Fleet Indian George Washington , Were any of these horses cheap? Were any of these races on synthetics? Nooooooooooooo. You're full of it Roke.

[Rokeby Forever]

"Were only cheap horses breaking down at Presque Isle? This stuff is a deathtrap!"

Well let's go back a bit. Ruffian, Charismatic, Go for Wand. Or a bit closer in time, Barbaro, Pine Island, Fleet Indian George Washington , Were any of these horses cheap? Were any of these races on synthetics? Nooooooooooooo. You're full of it Roke.

7 horses over 33 years...very impressive. I can name 7 horses in the last week carted off Golden Gate. That doesn't even include Turfway or any other synthetic track, since you thought enough to name horses that broke down on 4 different dirt tracks.

The current dirt tracks are old weren't sold as a remedy to "save lives and save careers." I can pull as many Presque Isle "eased and vanned off" charts as you want, and the same for Golden Gate. Dickinson never kept a horse sound in his life and these track managers saw him as some sort of a Messiah to the breakdown and injury problems. Of all people - Michael Dickinson. Track maintenance crews don't know how to maintain the stuff and they know more than Dickinson does. LOL!

You race in California and your state has a lot vested in these new tracks...but can you honestly say that you're pleased with the results that you've seen? The afternoon stats are bad enough - are you getting a daily report of horses pulling up and breaking down in the morning, or don't those horses count?

[Worksoplad]

Ok Let's name em Roke.
Rollins. Hit rail, lost Rider in a $12.5 Claimer, no-name trainer.
Guydancefromabove $176.70/1 outsider in Maiden claimer. No name trainer. Pulled up. Vanned off.
Gassan Snow $115.70/1 outsider. No name trainer in a $6,250 claimer. Stopped, Eased, Walked off.
Jump Rope Girl. Broke down in $4k claimer, No name trainer.
Y.U. Bad Boy. $73.40/1 outsider in $8k claimer. No name trainer. Eased and walked off.
Kisses from Dubai. $46.50/1 outsider in $32k claimer. No name trainer. Finished 33 lengths behind the winner, Eased and walked off.

Please explain in detail how those results were attributed to the synthetic track.

And while you are at it, please give me the results of the study/record you told me you were going to keep about injuries attributed to dirt tracks.

[Worksoplad]

"7 horses over 33 years...very impressive. I can name 7 horses in the last week carted off Golden Gate. That doesn't even include Turfway or any other synthetic track, since you thought enough to name horses that broke down on 4 different dirt tracks."

You really are the most disingenuous person that ever put pen to paper. I just get tired of reading your claptrap, lies and innuendos, so occasionally I bother to reply. The names I mentioned are just examples. Have you already forgotten the forum where we recently discussed this year's numerous breakdowns on Belmpnt Park's Dirt track? Oh. I remember. You haven't seen RTR's Xrays. Have you seen any horse that broke down's Xrays?

[Rokeby Forever]

Learn to read, Work - I wrote the dirt tracks are old and weren't sold in the last century or so based on safety, UNLIKE Tapeta.

Michael Dickinson spent four years "perfecting" this stuff. Why has he quit training to help maintenance crews figure the stuff out if he "perfected" it? Why are they still tweaking the stuff...doesn't Dickinson know how it works? Maybe he should have figured it out before he peddled it?

So is your argument that because a horse is cheap and/or a longshot, asking it to cross the wire in one piece is too much to ask? Should any "noname" trainer or one of a 20:1+ shot not get feed ready that evening because the horse might not come back? That's what Dickinson sold this stuff to help prevent!

I don't know how posting daily charts from Golden Gate is "disingenuous." Is Equibase involved with my conspiracy against Tapeta? Did Equibase seek to sabotage Presque Isle, and is now deviously working to destroy the hopes and dreams of those at Golden Gate?

Let's look at the new Santa Anita surface. We can't judge it on only one day, but:

The main reasons why cushion was chosen are "low cost and low maintenance." Did the stuff come with a warranty? The main track was dug up and then dug up again last week because it's now been figured out that the surface needs rain...when it dries out, the fibers and wax clog up the drainage system. Can the track put down enough water to prevent this from happening again? NO! So, if SoCal goes through periods of no rain (which isn't unusual), the maintenance crew is going to have to keep digging up the cushion to snake out the drains. Low maintenance, huh?

What did Santa Anita just add to the cushion to maybe help alleviate the problem? Sand. Gee, how novel.....Oh, they added asphalt too. So much for stopping California tracks from becoming "highways." I think NASCAR races are held on asphalt, aren't they?

I just get tired of reading your claptrap, lies and innuendos

Oh silly me - none of this did happen to Santa Anita's Main track before it opened - it was smooth sailing, and will continue to be so. It's just "claptrap, lies, and innuendo!"

Since you thought to include George Washington's breakdown in the Monmouth mud, I thought to expand my argument to Keeneland. What happened at the short fall meet?
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/nation ... eting.aspx

The Thoroughbred Times...another source of "claptrap, lies, and innuendo."

On May 1, you wrote on a thread called, "Hollywood....5 days in and...":

They break down on any track, any surface, whether just training or in a race. It has been that way for 300 years in every country that races TBs.

If that's true, why invest all this time and money on the new surfaces that you espouse?

[halfbridled]

Does anyone here find it unnerving that 3 recent fatal breakdowns at GGF on 12/13, 12/14 and 12/22 were all at the 3/8 pole?
The 2 2 y/o and Jump Rope Girl..

If anyone wants a full list of DNF, vanoffs and breakdowns I have enough to keep the Inbreeding and Breakdown thread going for another 20 pages.. Turf Paradise makes GGF look like a very safe track. Anyone watch that track??

Here is a quick glimpse of TP, this is average for them:

12-10-07 Race 6. 1 mile 5K maiden Claiming. 2 y/o Maidens Purse 6200. Spring Lovin 2/ was eased and DNF.

12-10-07 Race 6. 1 mile 5K maiden Claiming. 2 y/o Maidens Purse 6200. Global Toi 2/ Finished 3rd and was vanned off.

12-10-07 Race 7. 1 1/16 mi. (TURF) 30,200 Ocean Bay S. FAM 3 y/o and up. Lookingforpleasure 6/M vanned off after 7th place finish.

12-11-07 Race 3. 1 mile 6250 Claiming. Puse 7600. 3 y/o and up. Time's De 4/ Broke down near the half.

12-11-07 Race 8. 1 mile (TURF CHUTE) Chuck N Luck S. 30,200 purse. 3 y/o. Fandabidoo 3/ pulled up on the backstretch, vanned off.

12-11-07 Race 9 5.5F 2400 Claiming. Purse 6K. 3 y/o and up. Junior Don B. 3/ Vanned off after 7th place finish

12-14-07 Race 9. 6.5F 6250 Claiming. Purse 7200. 3 y/o and up. Latino Summer 4/ eased on the backstretch, vanned off.

12-15-07 Race 7. 6.5F 22K MSW. 3 y/o and up. Thendara's Cat 3/ pulled up early and was vanned off.

12-17-07 Race 2. 5F 22K AOC. 3 y/o and up. Gold Bridle 5/ vanned off after 2nd place finish.

12-18-07 (OK)

12-19-07 Race 2. 7.5F (TURF) 30K MOC. Purse 13K. I.B. A Runaway 5/ vanned off after finishing 1st.

12-19-07 Race 4. 5.5F 15K ALW. 3 y/o and up. Apollo Six 5/ bled and was vanned off. DNF.

12-19-07 Race 7. 1 1/16 mi. 3K Claiming. Purse 6200. 3 y/o and up. Nicol n Dime Me 10/ eased in upper stretch and vanned off. DNF.

[Tucumcari]

Jump Rope Girl was a shipper from S Cal. with problems but no one thought she'd break down.

[Rokeby Forever]

Does anyone here find it unnerving that 3 recent fatal breakdowns at GGF on 12/13, 12/14 and 12/22 were all at the 3/8 pole?
The 2 2 y/o and Jump Rope Girl..

I do...and I find it unnerving that babies are breaking down, not just old claimers that are patched together. But others feel that writing about breakdowns and listing them is "claptrap, lies, and innuendo."

As for Turf Paradise, what is the current composition of the surface? Has anything been done to make the surface different over this period of time?

[bdw0617]

can someone please explain to me how these polytrack compaines make money? I mean I know they install the stuff but after that I mean...

[winds]

When I was training, as the listed trainer, when I first took out my trainers license, I only have one win listed and many on the boards and off the boards. I did horrible with my own horse, he wanted the grass, and I had a friend talk me out of running him on the grass. Know why? Because he was by a no name horse and I was a no name trainer.

These so called no name trainers are trying to make a living. Plus the big name trainers were at one time NO NAME trainers. So, just because a horse is trained by someone not really known doesn't mean they don't know what they are doing.

I had no talent horses, that I did the best I could with. I was in N.VA not in MD. I'm not one to go to the bars and smoosh with owners or potential owners, you know prostitute myself like these guys do. I wasn't into self promotion like these high profile trainers are.

But, when left in charge with full rein of a racing stable, after years of experience and knowledge, with some talented horses, I showed myself and others that I can train a horse to win. I'm still a NO NAME trainer.

Don't make us sound like we are the crap of the world, because we're not.

winds

[Tucumcari]

Winds, some of the little guys are better, because they give a rats ass about the horse. They just need an opportunity.

[bdw0617]

When I was training, as the listed trainer, when I first took out my trainers license, I only have one win listed and many on the boards and off the boards. I did horrible with my own horse, he wanted the grass, and I had a friend talk me out of running him on the grass. No why? Because he was by a no name horse and I was a no name trainer.

These so called no name trainers are trying to make a living. Plus the big name trainers were at one time NO NAME trainers. So, just because a horse is trained by someone not really known doesn't mean they don't know what they are doing.

I had no talent horses, that I did the best I could with. I was in N.VA not in MD. I'm not one to go to the bars and smoosh with owners or potential owners, you know prostitute myself like these guys do. I wasn't into self promotion like these high profile trainers are.

But, when left in charge with full rein of a racing stable, after years of experience and knowledge, with some talented horses, I showed myself and others that I can train a horse to win. I'm still a NO NAME trainer.

Don't make us sound like we are the crap of the world, because we're not.

winds

great post

[Worksoplad]

"Oh silly me - none of this did happen to Santa Anita's Main track before it opened - it was smooth sailing, and will continue to be so. It's just "claptrap, lies, and innuendo!" "

And Santa Anita and GGF never had any breakdowns before they changed to synthetics either did they? They never had to perform major track renovations because of the surface before did they? Nor did any trainer ever complain about the surface before?

Still waiting for your survey results on the lack of breakdowns at Belmont and Saratoga Roke. It's taking a mighty long time.

[Worksoplad]

Does anyone here find it unnerving that 3 recent fatal breakdowns at GGF on 12/13, 12/14 and 12/22 were all at the 3/8 pole?
The 2 2 y/o and Jump Rope Girl..

I do...and I find it unnerving that babies are breaking down, not just old claimers that are patched together. But others feel that writing about breakdowns and listing them is "claptrap, lies, and innuendo."

As for Turf Paradise, what is the current composition of the surface? Has anything been done to make the surface different over this period of time?

The Turf Paradise track is good old fashioned dirt Roke. Have you looked at the Xrays of these horses to see if they really broke down or the trainers were just faking it?

[bdw0617]

"Oh silly me - none of this did happen to Santa Anita's Main track before it opened - it was smooth sailing, and will continue to be so. It's just "claptrap, lies, and innuendo!" "

And Santa Anita and GGF never had any breakdowns before they changed to synthetics either did they? They never had to perform major track renovations because of the surface before did they? Nor did any trainer ever complain about the surface before?

Still waiting for your survey results on the lack of breakdowns at Belmont and Saratoga Roke. It's taking a mighty long time.

your argurement ommits that california spent 20 million dollars to get the exact same thing.

Yes they had breakdowns before, that's not the point. they spent 20 million dollars to have the same breakdowns and loose customers, owners and trianers who don't like it in the process.

I don't know what roke was getting off on but it's a moot point. Belmont and Saratoga did not spend 20 million dollars, and change one of the most basic premises of horse racing in the name of saftey like California did