The Big Brown Sellout--BB will not race past 3 y.o. season

[Barbaro06]

Beyer's article from today's Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/14/AR2008051403889.html

Corporate Wall Street types running the show. Hmmm. Can't mention where you worked before? Spare me.

Take the pleasure out of a sport, thanks a lot. While you're at it, slap a few UPS stickers on Big Brown so he can look like he stepped off the track at DAYTONA or TALEDEGA.

Like the Car of Tomorrow making NASCAR an even more snoozer of a sport, this corporate running of horse racing makes me want to give up the sport for awhile....

[spex4me]

You make it sound like Big Brown was the only horse on roids, and infer that they helped him romp. Could be you are right, but as of this time it was not illegal to be on them. I agree with you, I think all race day medications should be banned and the cheaters banned for life, but what are the odds that track management would support that, they already cannot fill race cards.

I would guess they are all on 'roids, DDT. I don't know for sure. I know BIG BROWN is. And yes, it's 100% legal. Until it isn't, doubt I'll ever have a horse there. A dream sometimes remains a dream. I don't think banning drugs would hurt race cards one bit. I am more affected by races I want not being written. But that's another story.

My hope is that all horses run equally, and the best rise to the top. Add to that: I can imagine a day when the best "pure" horses go into the breeding sheds. And the breed is elevated, instead of diminished.

I would love to know the true answer to that question. Did BB beat other 'supplemented' horses? According to Larry Jones (which I believe) he said Eight Belles was not on steroids. That speaks volumes to me that a filly, that hopefully returns with negative results, came second to Big Brown. I would venture out that the lengths he won by could be marked by cc's on a syringe. (not anything that that hasn't been admitted to)
And I am a tad confused, for the Belmont, is Lasix now allowed? I was under the impression nothing was allowed.
Personally I would want to send my mares to a stallion that ran good without help as opposed to one that ran great with help. To me when you do that, do you really know what you are crossing with? Or what you'll truly get?

[dray33]

I would love to know the true answer to that question. Did BB beat other 'supplemented' horses? According to Larry Jones (which I believe) he said Eight Belles was not on steroids. That speaks volumes to me that a filly, that hopefully returns with negative results, came second to Big Brown. I would venture out that the lengths he won by could be marked by cc's on a syringe. (not anything that that hasn't been admitted to).

Excellent point, Eight Belles was tested and found to be clean.

This is a sport of inches, seconds. Hell, Fractions of seconds. The average winning margin is under than 1.5 lengths. Every second accounts for about 5-6 lengths. All the needle need do is squeeze out an inkling of an advantage to yield sizable results. A little extra muscle mass, or a little added fire in the burner can take a horse from 3rd to 1st in many races... it's the truth. Doubt the advantage? Ask the pros whether it benefits the athlete. They gladly dance with the devil, tempting cancer and sterility, just to get the "little" advantage the needle offers.

Stop. Level the playing field. Improve the breed.

[ak1]

Eye opening discussion....

I'm guessing that I am not alone in hearing all the talk about Eight Belles sad story being horrible for racing and wondering if we were going to hear about a Derby winner failing the post race drug test to make things worse.

Dutrow is from a family of horseman and I suspect knows enough to recognize the gem he has in Big Brown...and I hope is running him "clean".

But as much as I'd love for every trainer to have a Derby winner...I had a hard time being happy for a trainer who has drug violations and would guess is one of many who pushes the envelope.

[Sam]

wondering if we were going to hear about a Derby winner failing the post race drug test to make things worse.

How quickly Dancer's Image has been forgotten.

[dray33]

Dutrow is from a family of horseman and I suspect knows enough to recognize the gem he has in Big Brown...and I hope is running him "clean".

Steroids are legal, so he is running him sorta-clean. Dutrow make it clear he uses steroids. If they test BIG BROWN after the race, he passes. Thats why the law needs to change, nationally, uniformly.

[dray33]

wondering if we were going to hear about a Derby winner failing the post race drug test to make things worse.

How quickly Dancer's Image has been forgotten.

And that was Bute, right?

[AscotStud]

Where do you people get this stuff? It's not the farm's decision whether he runs at 4.

Hell yes it is, when the farm signs the deal (for these types of horses), it is based on the horse going to stud at 4, usually after the Breeders Cup. THE FARM could allow for the horse to continue to run if they want to, but they won't because they don't get to charge the breeders stupid money to breed to an unproven sire.

If you race him at 4, then you're risking the horse's life and limb unnecessarily in the name of what? Sport? Purse money?

Once again HELL YES, that is why most people are in this to run their horses against other horses and win races. It's a f-ing sport. I don't care what anyone would offer me, I would be running this horse as long as he is sound and competitive at the Graded level. I got into this because of the sport not to make money, that comes hand and hand with having good horses. Where do you draw the line, start retiring G3 winners because if they can only win a listed stake at 4 they are worth less than a million.

Like I said before, most owners these days don't have any balls or a sporting bone in their body. The decision is easy for the stud farms, retire them as early as possible to rake in the cash before the horse is a failure.

[Sam]

wondering if we were going to hear about a Derby winner failing the post race drug test to make things worse.

How quickly Dancer's Image has been forgotten.

And that was Bute, right?

Yes, sir.

[xfactor fan]

Things won't change till there is more money in racing than in stud fees. And right now the really big money is in standing a big name stallion.

[ZZTOPPERS]

Great thread--lots of great opinions. I know I'd have to take the money and run, too, but I think from the perspective of the SPORT as a whole, if we keep retiring our stars just when they peak, the sport will, in fact, continue to decline because there is no one horse the general public knows and will root for. But you have to now LOVE Jess Jackson, he's got all the money he needs and is in this for the SPORT (as well as the money, I know, but the SPORT first). I believe the Dubai folks have more money than they know what to do with, so if they were turely interested in the SPORT, we'd have the chance to see if last year's crop of three year olds can match up with this year's crop........

[Heidilady]

There's no stud deal in place for Big Brown. Not sure where you're assuming it's Three Chimneys. Even if they are interested and were in position, it could easily fall through and IEAH could move on--clearly there was enough of a problem for it not to be in place the day they wanted it to be. Not sure why no one's calling out the 'let's see proof' thing. Maybe it's true but unless you have evidence let's avoid stating it as fact, shall we?

I don't know that I'd blame anyone for retiring a TC winner at the end of their 3yo year. It's not like one's alive right now, he'd be the only one. And should he break down, you try undoing the damage from 'Triple Crown winner breaks down on track' which would likely happen in front of a viewing audience of millions. Yeah that's not catastrophic PR.

That said I personally don't like it when horses do that but then again I don't enjoy the connections either so it's not even my biggest beef, this whole retirement thing. Won't hold it against the horse. I'll spend my time hoping his feet are okay and wondering about a mile and a half. Are y'all seriously telling me you were super warm and fuzzy about this horse until you heard this latest news? Even if they acknowledged his talent, seemed like most folks had issues with something or someone already. This isn't Smarty Jones,guys. Big Brown wasn't the 'people's horse' in the same way. I'll get over it. Even with a TC win I'd get over it. He sounds like a sweetie but they didn't latch onto him like Barbaro post-Derby.

[AscotStud]

There's no stud deal in place for Big Brown. Not sure where you're assuming it's Three Chimneys

OK

[larrygene]

BB is headed to Three Chimneys as per BH, DRF, TT