Quality Road Banged Up

[UmmYeah]

Well, remember that all of the other horses had already loaded (except for Awesome Gem), and the horse to load before him (Zenyatta) balked a bit before finally going in. I suspect that, as more horses loaded and the race got closer to starting, the helicopter got closer and louder. It was a bad coincidence that the one with the biggest gate issues was on the outside and one of the last to load.

[bdw0617]

okay

so you got a banged up horse, who hasn't been scaned yet or anything, he's a train wreck mentally


AND YOU WORK HIM?! are you serious?

he worked this morning.

[UmmYeah]

Well... I can kinda see the logic in working him. I mean, if he really is okay physically, I can see how it might help him mentally to get him back into a routine. It's kind of like saying "Okay, no need to focus on that. Back to work now."

[bdw0617]

Well... I can kinda see the logic in working him. I mean, if he really is okay physically, I can see how it might help him mentally to get him back into a routine. It's kind of like saying "Okay, no need to focus on that. Back to work now."

my point is, not so much the work, but basically guessing he's okay physically.

this is a horse that is worth millions of dollars, who will stand at stud and will comand a 5 digit stud fee when it's all said and done, you let him do all of that stuf he did, and not send him to R&R to be scanned before letting him see the track again?

that in itself would case me to pull my horses from him.

[UmmYeah]

I agree, IF he not physically okay. It's been a few days, so it is possible that he may have been checked and scanned and deemed a-okay. And, there's also the possibility that the owner was involved in the decision to get him back to work. I would be very, very surprised if the first Mr Evans heard of it was the email notification from his stable mail.

[geowarrior]

You don't have to send him to Rood and Riddle to get him scanned. There are such things as portable scanners.

[AscotStud]

1. there is no excuse for your horse throwing a temper tandtrum in a 5 million dolalr race. as a owner, i pay you for so this does not happen. this is why i pay you thousands of dollars a month. so my horse gets in the gates and gives me a chance to win something.

if you can't get my horse in the gate, why the hell am i paying you? seirously?

Seriously!!! try working with these animals (not robots) for a day in your life and you might see how it is possible. A horse can throw a tantrum before a $5mil race just as easily as it could the day it is supposed to get its gate card and run 6 days later, you never know...THEY ARE ANIMALS AND HAVE THEIR OWN MINDS!!!!

so you got a banged up horse, who hasn't been scaned yet or anything, he's a train wreck mentally


AND YOU WORK HIM?! are you serious?

Once again go work in a barn feel each horses legs 25 times a day or more, watch them walk, jog, gallop then walk again...you might not need a scan to tell you the horse is sound and ready to work...That's horsemanship, not being a clubhouse trainer.

I'm not backing up TP by any means, not really a fan, just a little shocked by the lack of knowledge behind both quoted statements.

[AscotStud]

1. there is no excuse for your horse throwing a temper tandtrum in a 5 million dolalr race. as a owner, i pay you for so this does not happen. this is why i pay you thousands of dollars a month. so my horse gets in the gates and gives me a chance to win something.

if you can't get my horse in the gate, why the hell am i paying you? seirously?

Seriously!!! try working with these animals (not robots) for a day in your life and you might see how it is possible. A horse can throw a tantrum before a $5mil race just as easily as it could the day it is supposed to get its gate card and run 6 days later, you never know...THEY ARE ANIMALS AND HAVE THEIR OWN MINDS!!!!

so you got a banged up horse, who hasn't been scaned yet or anything, he's a train wreck mentally


AND YOU WORK HIM?! are you serious?

Once again go work in a barn feel each horses legs 25 times a day or more, watch them walk, jog, gallop then walk again...you might not need a scan to tell you the horse is sound and ready to work...That's horsemanship, not being a clubhouse trainer.

I'm not backing up TP by any means, not really a fan, just a little shocked by the lack of knowledge behind both quoted statements.

[bdw0617]

1. there is no excuse for your horse throwing a temper tandtrum in a 5 million dolalr race. as a owner, i pay you for so this does not happen. this is why i pay you thousands of dollars a month. so my horse gets in the gates and gives me a chance to win something.

if you can't get my horse in the gate, why the hell am i paying you? seirously?

Seriously!!! try working with these animals (not robots) for a day in your life and you might see how it is possible. A horse can throw a tantrum before a $5mil race just as easily as it could the day it is supposed to get its gate card and run 6 days later, you never know...THEY ARE ANIMALS AND HAVE THEIR OWN MINDS!!!!

so you got a banged up horse, who hasn't been scaned yet or anything, he's a train wreck mentally


AND YOU WORK HIM?! are you serious?

Once again go work in a barn feel each horses legs 25 times a day or more, watch them walk, jog, gallop then walk again...you might not need a scan to tell you the horse is sound and ready to work...That's horsemanship, not being a clubhouse trainer.

I'm not backing up TP by any means, not really a fan, just a little shocked by the lack of knowledge behind both quoted statements.

1. you are missing a very important fact. Evans doesn't pay pletcher to give a damn how hard it is to be a horseman. that's not his problem and that's more so what i'm trying to convey than anything else.


If he DID in fact give a crap, he would have left him with evans in the first place. ovbiously he wanted results, that prompted the barn change. being the first horse in recent memory to scratch out of a grade 1 race becuase of a hissy fit, the breeders cup classic none the less, are not the results he was looking for, i'm sure. April = winning the florida derby, installed as the 7/2 fav for the kentuvky derby november=hissy fitts, scratching out of 5 million dollar races becuase your horse won't load.

I seriously doubt evans is the one in this situation that wants to hear about how horses can be horses and so on and so forth, even if it's the truth.



horses act up but let's be real, there's acting up and then thgere is doin the what quality road did on teh biggest stage of horse racing.

I've never in my short time of seriously following horse racing, maybe 6 years now, seen a horse get scratched from a grade 1 race becuase he threw a temper tantrum. i'm not saying it's never happened. i'm saying if it has, I don't remember it. that's not something you see everyday.

horses are horses yet pletchers horses seem to go 'horse' on more occusions than everyone else.


2. on your second point, I never said todd pletcher is not a horseman. In fact i'm sure he's quite a horseman. What i said was, I don't give a crap how good of a horseman you are, if it's my horse and he's worth that much, that's not a chance you take. you scan the horse as throrughly as you possibly can. it has nothing to do with forsemanship and everything to do with fiscal responsbility.

you don't cut those types of corners with those types of horses.




I'm ovbiously not a trainer nor do i profess to be, but what i think this horse needs and what i think he is giong ot get are probably going to be 2 different things.

I think he NEEDS to be turned out and schooled to death and whatever anyone with more knowledge on schooling horses at the gate recommend, as well as let his feet heel a little, and put togehter a nice 5-6 race campaign ending int he breeders cup classic.

what I think he is going to get is rushed into the cigar mile which he will finish off the board and who knows from there.

[zinn21]

I don't know the gate history on Quality Road. I did see him in his prior race and don't recall he put up much of a fight at the gate that day. He might have had one of those days where all things line up negative and the gate crew guessed wrong.

My trainer, Mike Larson gets a lot of horses with problems from most of the top trainers in Northern Ca. Mike is a great horseman and I have, over the years, watched him turn many bad gate horses around with a little time, a lot of patience and the manipulation with a set of spurs that only a great artist possesses..

[da hossman]

BDW - I do not understand your agitation and aggression when you admit you have only been a fan for 2 years and have never actually worked on the racetrack. It reminds me of a few folks that I have watched come into the game "knowing everything", using no advisers, changing trainers every 6 months as the horses they themselves selected failed to perform up to their unrealistic expectations, eventually leaving the game after 2 or 3 years.

Do you tell your doctor how to operate or critique his performance on a regular basis?

Please understand that some owners (Evans) prefer a trainer that schedules his races months ahead rather than 1 at a time; Jerkens is an intuitive trainer while Pletcher is more of a schedule guy - completely different types; Also Evans is trying to build a stallion prospect and when the trainer (Jerkens) several times in the press is quoted "his quarter cracks are in his pedigree" it does not build his case.

Also please realize that 99% of trainers do not understand breeding, they simply do not have time to study it and most don't really care about it - they buy physical athletes, not pedigree. I have known a number of people that had their trainers buy their mares or make their matings. I have never seen either situation succeed in my almost 30 years in the business.

Take a little time to ask questions and visit with a few folks before leaping to judgement and accusations - how do any of us really know for sure that QR was not radiographed or scanned? If you are not in that barn you will not know unless they want you to know.

[Shammy Davis]

Todd is not a warm and fuzzy guy, but he is successful. Like I said, if I was training QR, I be pretty embarassed about the BC incident and I'd go to work to fix the problem immediately.

Ned Evans has been around for quite sometime. He knows what to expect and he knows how to deal with these problems. I agree w/Da Hossman that you really have to have some personal hands on experience with horses to understand what was going on at the SA/OT starting gate. If QR could talk we'd know the answer, but he can't.

There a big difference between the knowledge of a fan who plays a $2 win bet and the people who work day in and day out on the backstretch. Horses are not machines. Remember Tabasco Cat.

I was interested to learn that Kenny McPeek was using off-track training facilities now. Every racehorse takes individual management. Often problems are missed. It's embarassing, but it's not the end of the world. Ned Evans will figure this out. If he had lost confidence in Todd, we'd know by now.

[AscotStud]

I was interested to learn that Kenny McPeek was using off-track training facilities now

Yes, his facility is right next to Victory Haven (the old 505 Farm) where I was the past month. You can see his horses jogging and cantering along the gallops he has there, seems like a very relaxing atmosphere for the young ones and problem horses.

[bdw0617]

everyone is more than entitled to their opinion, I have no problem with that whatsoever.

mine is that todd pletcher is cut out of the same mode as D Wayne lukas (ironically enough trainer of tabasco cat) and I think if this hosre was in a smaller barn where the trainer could have a more hands on approach to him like he was with jerkins we wouldn't be here

I also believe he's been horribly mismanaged ever since his win in the amsterdam, and believe they would be making another mistake by going to the cigar mile.

if you think i'm unqualified to make that statement, you are more than titled to that opinion.

[Shammy Davis]

bdw617 posted:

everyone is more than entitled to their opinion, I have no problem with that whatsoever.

mine is that todd pletcher is cut out of the same mode as D Wayne lukas (ironically enough trainer of tabasco cat) and I think if this hosre was in a smaller barn where the trainer could have a more hands on approach to him like he was with jerkins we wouldn't be here

I also believe he's been horribly mismanaged ever since his win in the amsterdam, and believe they would be making another mistake by going to the cigar mile.

if you think i'm unqualified to make that statement, you are more than titled to that opinion.

No one is saying that you shouldn't have an opinion. The industry is built on fan enthusiasm and you certainly meet that test.

That being said, I think that horsemen will agree that the QR incident is something that could happen to any trainer or any barn. It is apparent that you don't care for either D. Wayne Lukas or Todd Pletcher and that is okay but taking this incident as an example that they are poor trainers is a real stretch of the imagination. Both are highly successful and respected. Both are more than qualified to be trainers. Many successful owners send their horses to these two trainers. There are many more pros than cons for an owner to send their horses to either of these men.

If I were lucky enough to be a D. Wayne or Todd and had a Tabasco Cat or QR incident, I'd be embarassed and concerned. Wayne's son was disabled for life because he was trying to be a responsible horseman in the Tabasco Cat incident. Working with any horse is dangerous. If I were the owner of either of these two colts, I might take a moment to consider whether a new trainer was/is inorder, but I would consider this based on my knowledge of horsemanship and not as a fan or handicapper.

As far as the QR incident, there are number of issues of a physical nature that could have caused him to rear and quick. QR's equipment could have been poorly adjusted. The saddle pad may have been uncomfortable. The helicopter overhead could have frightened him. (I can't think of a training program that socializes their horses to aircraft noise.) Horses can't talk. Sometimes these problems are recognized and sometimes they are not. Small barn, large barn, and off-track training facilities all deal with the same problems.

Racehorses are complicated animals. They haven't a clue whether they are in a small barn or large barn.

With all due respect, you are welcome to your opinion but make your thoughts known on what you do know and not on what you don't know.

If you want to slam a trainer because he runs a bunch of losing nags, or can't get any of his horses in the gate, or has a high breakdown percentage, you'll definitely get my attention.